You know what, folks?  i really would have liked to discuss the vegetarian/vegan thing ~ i stated what my opinion is, asked what science had to say about it,

and, as usual, had to do my own research.

i didn't bitch about it, i stated a truth, that human bodies were meant to be omnivorous, and sort of expected a mature response about the good things about BEING a vegetarian/vegan,

but instead of taking a moment to even read my posts in the way i meant them,

you thought i was attacking you, somehow, and turned around and attacked me.

If i ever thought i might have this discussion with someone,

y'all have certainly cured me.

Thank you so much for setting me straight.

I agree with everything Krsna has said about food.


The only time I get pissed about different diets is when I have to spend a bunch of time reorganizing things at the last minute because someone wanted to bring along their friend/cousin/lovechild who only eats soy-beans and rye-bread. I organized this event a MONTH ago, invited guests to the place based on what the food was etc. Why should I have to give a fuck if someone not on the original list may not want to eat the food. YOU sort your shit out, call the fucking restaurant before inviting your guest at the last minute, and if it's not for them SIMPLY DON'T INVITE THAT PERSON and stop wasting my time.

Meh. You get used to them. Anytime we attend a function and bring a dish, we check around to see who is vegan, or veggie, or Ovo/Lacto or Celiac. And adjust. It's no big deal. There's a whole internet of recipes out there.

Of course I don't eat that shit at home...

I'm sick of babysitting those Indian bastards

 I know precisely what is being pumped into farm animals: Deliciousness.

 Human beings are opportunistic omnivores (like dogs, who evolved to become a companion species because of our dietary similarities) adapted to eating meat, to hunting, killing, and scavenging. Both the complex social behaviors which most efficiently obtain food in this manner, and the high density of proteins, carbohydrates, vitamins, and minerals made available by the consumption of flesh were a significant factor in the development of man's superior intelligence. The development of the human brain requires a great deal of protein, animal protein, which is why women who do not consume meat during pregnancy tend to produce children with stunted mental development. Retarded? Not necessarily, but significantly short of their full potential.

 You want to live off of wheat grass and soy beans*? Be my guest.

But do not presume to tell me it's better for the environment when you consume foodstuffs which typically have only a fraction of the nutritional density of meats and eggs, which means the shipping, processing, packaging, and reshipping of several times the mass.

Do not presume to tell me it is "cruelty free" or "more humane" when the thrashers, combines, plows, and other equipment required to grow and harvest your feed thrashes, combines, and plows countless fuzzy little bunnies, field mice, baby birds, stray Mexican children, etc. to bring your little feel-good farts to the table.


* You want to worry about growth hormones? Really? Try looking into the effects of a soy-rich diet on male physiology.


PS- Lions sleep heavily after a successful hunt for the same reason all cats do: They are ambush predators who gorge themselves on as much of a kill as they can cram down, and then drop off their activity level to conserve energy for the next hunt. It is a common survival strategy, and it is common because it works. Humans have a similar, albeit much less pronounced reaction to consuming a high-carbohydrate meal for much the same reason. It has nothing to do with the energy requirements of digesting meat, which is a much simpler process than digesting most flora (hence why most species which remain dedicated herbivores over a long enough period evolve multi-chambered stomachs... or a habit of eating their own dung) and returns much more potential chemical energy to the body. This is why it isn't just eating high-fat meats (like hamburger) that will act as a soporific; eating bread will make you just as drowsy.

Oh go eat some farmed beef. Hope your shriveled balls fall off and rinse down the drain.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm the last person around here who has difficulty producing his own testosterone.

Sure it's not bovine or porcine? Gonna have some lil piggies maybe? Hmmm? Gonna... gonna have yourself a little calf to call your own? Gonna start your own farm?  Everybody wanna sing a few rousing rounds of Old McBalor? Hmmm?

God I've been waiting for the opportunity to do a Stewie tribute...

You want to live off of wheat grass and soy beans*? Be my guest.

But do not presume to tell me it's better for the environment when you consume foodstuffs which typically have only a fraction of the nutritional density of meats and eggs, which means the shipping, processing, packaging, and reshipping of several times the mass.

Do not presume to tell me it is "cruelty free" or "more humane" when the thrashers, combines, plows, and other equipment required to grow and harvest your feed thrashes, combines, and plows countless fuzzy little bunnies, field mice, baby birds, stray Mexican children, etc. to bring your little feel-good farts to the table.

Okay, YES!  The whole WORSE for the environment thang ~ that's something i'd like to check into.

And check this out about the increased Longevity of Vegetarians/Vegans/Occasional Meat Eaters/Meat Eaters:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/516S/T7

So, even though there are supposed to be so many health benefits to being veggie/vegan, a vegetarian has a worse longevity ratio than a regular meat eater.

Now, THAT's pretty interesting.

If what you say is true then I find your defensiveness strangely inappropriate.

my intention wasn't to come across as being defensive, but to simply defend myself and my diet.

I was watching the news yesterday and these two Hispanic women with three kids each were interviewed at the grocery store.  The reporter asked them why they didn't have any fresh fruit or vegetables in their carts and one woman answered, "why would I buy a carrot when I could buy two hamburgers for the same price."  Ignorance is bliss, at least for mexicans.

Smaller = better in that chart.

Vegetarians, occasional meat eaters, and fish eaters all exhibited significantly lower mortality than meat eaters.  If you compare the overall numbers in the study, occasional meat eaters and vegetarians had the same overall outcome, whereas fish eaters fared slightly better.  

Vegans and meat eaters had approximately the same outcomes, though they couldn't account for the high incidence of lung cancer in vegans who were part of the study.

Because we all SMOKE CIGARETTES?

Smaller = better in that chart.

Vegetarians, occasional meat eaters, and fish eaters all exhibited significantly lower mortality than meat eaters.  If you compare the overall numbers in the study, occasional meat eaters and vegetarians had the same overall outcome, whereas fish eaters fared slightly better.  

Vegans and meat eaters had approximately the same outcomes, though they couldn't account for the high incidence of lung cancer in vegans who were part of the study.

Yes!  i confused myself, by glancing at the FIRST line, and thinking THAT was the total.  Thank you for the correction!

You want to live off of wheat grass and soy beans*? Be my guest.

But do not presume to tell me it's better for the environment when you consume foodstuffs which typically have only a fraction of the nutritional density of meats and eggs, which means the shipping, processing, packaging, and reshipping of several times the mass.

All of these things have to be done in order to make the feed that is supplied to the chicken/ cattle/ etc. farms.

But we solved that problem by instead forcing the animals to be cannibals and just grinding up the sick, dead animals and feeding them to the other animals!

Oh go eat some farmed beef. Hope your shriveled balls fall off and are fried in olive oil and eaten by tricky's friends.

fixed.

All of these things have to be done in order to make the feed that is supplied to the chicken/ cattle/ etc. farms.

 You do realize that there is a considerable difference between bulk shipping grain from Farmland A to Farmland B and shipping it from Farmland A to processing plant, to factory, packaging it for individual consumption, shipping it to urban centers, and then distributing it throughout urban centers... at several times the volume and mass of meat/egg/dairy products of similar nutritional value?

You want to live off of wheat grass and soy beans*? Be my guest.

But do not presume to tell me it's better for the environment when you consume foodstuffs which typically have only a fraction of the nutritional density of meats and eggs, which means the shipping, processing, packaging, and reshipping of several times the mass.

All of these things have to be done in order to make the feed that is supplied to the chicken/ cattle/ etc. farms.

But we solved that problem by instead forcing the animals to be cannibals and just grinding up the sick, dead animals and feeding them to the other animals!

Aside from the point that was pointed out by tricky - we're already growing, processing, and shipping tons and tons of corn to feed meat stock, it's also incorrect that meat is nutritionally dense.

Nutrient density usually refers to necessary vitamins & minerals / calories.  Meat & eggs fair pretty poorly measured in that regard.

The only measure by which meat has high nutrient density is if you're referring to protein density - calories from protein / total calories (or high fat densities for some types of meat).  And that's only relevant if you're seeking to eat a high protein diet to be a body builder or something.

my boyfriend and a friend and i just had this conversation this morning-- the bodybuilding/high protein diet thing. Bf is friends with bodybuilder/former mr. universe jay cutler, and friend is a manhattan-based photographer who, for a stint, did bodybuilding competition photography. both said they've never seen people indulge in such an unhealthy dietary lifestyle as those they've known in that area. people fainting left and right pre- and post- competition, and jay powering through plates of meat on meat, most of these people ending up with heart problems and serious cholesterol issue.

setting the potential steroid issue aside-- granted, i am generalizing the bodybuilder. this is also a diet that exemplifies a polar extreme, and of course there should be green and/or whole grain and plenty of water on/with every plate as far as i (and most nutritionists) are concerned. it just goes to show how any one-way diet can lead to serious malnutrition, meat or no meat.

it just goes to show how any one-way diet can lead to serious malnutrition, meat or no meat.

Amen to that.