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Quote from: homeless-joe
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AIG(Read 7964 times)
AIG on: March 20, 2009, 02:10:07 AM
Are the new symbol of evil corporate America. Funnily enough a lot of the banks who got money used it to buy out contracts and guaranteed bonuses for current and former staff, why are they not being hung from the same pole?
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: AIG Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 04:50:36 AM
Probably because the Govt mad a big thing about AIG being too big to fail.

Lehmans werent.



Re: AIG Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
I'm buying AIG stock.

No way are they going to let it go under and it'll climb in value.
Skybox, right up here in section La-Di-Dah.



Re: AIG Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 08:41:48 AM
Probably a good plan.  Also look for insurance houses that will probably be absorbed into the larger ones.  Usually you get a one for one on the stocks.



Re: AIG Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 11:42:35 AM
I think the House of Representatives wrote their tax bill to tax all bonuses for companies that took the TARP money at 90%, not just for AIG.  Which affects $500 million dollars in bonuses, rather than just AIG.

I was listening to C-SPAN the other day and the argument that one of the Republican Senators was making against the bill is that it is unfair because it singles out certain individuals.  That was the point I yelled at my radio and put in a cd.



Re: AIG Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 11:58:58 AM
The crooks who did this actually have the gall to explain the robbery as "retention" bonuses, necessary to keep their key personnel in house to help them re-build and in turn stimulate the economy.

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO GO ASSHOLES! ARE YOU SERIOUS?

You really expect me to believe that some other company is chomping at the bit to hold the following interview with your execs?

So let's see here... I see you helped run AIG into the ground, impressive. Well, even though our company is making 50% less than last year because of what you helped do to the world's economy we're prepared to offer you 20% more than what AIG is paying you, but if you really twist our arm about it we can go up to a 25% increase, but only because we really like your style!

Man, people's heads need to roll and not in the figurative sense. There are children who don't have enough food and these fuckers are brazenly thumbing their noses at us all, including the fucker who changed the bill to allow this and then fucking LIED about it.

That mother fucker.
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Re: AIG Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 01:35:21 PM
There's a few articles floating around about Eliot Spitzer right now and I think he's got an editorial in the NY Times (though I haven't looked).  He was running his mouth about AIG and particularly Goldman Sachs about the time it was revealed that he liked to bone hookers in his free time.

For all the anger about AIG, apparently Goldman Sachs is going to make out awesome in this - no surprise given who the previous and current Treasury Secretaries are.





Re: AIG Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 01:48:34 PM
If anyone actually believes that the super high priced escort service being used by a politician who was giving big business a hard time just "happened" to come under investigation by some unthinkable miracle of coincidence i'd like to meet that person so I can offload this deed to the sun. I mean, I'd really like to start charging everyone a penny a day for the sun's energy I own but I'm way too busy to do it and would really like for some deserving soul to benefit from my burden.
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Re: AIG Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 02:30:36 PM
I figured that it was just retribution at the time, since he had a reputation for taking on some of the big time corruption going on up there.  I didn't put it together that it might've related to something current.

I think the way to resolve the issue is for people to start posting pictures of these guys, their families, the addresses of all of their homes, their license plate numbers, etc. like the christian nuts did with abortion doctors.




Re: AIG Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 02:33:06 PM
w3rd.
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Re: AIG Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 05:03:25 PM
We should bring back the ancient execution treatment.

For high fraud and corruption and stealing billions of dollars and fucking the economy or anything else like that, there can be only one solution...

Pour molten gold down their throats.

Quote
In 1599, a Spanish governor in early colonial Ecuador suffered this fate. Native Indians of the Jivaro tribe, unscrupulously taxed in their gold trade, attacked the settlement of Logrono and executed the gold hungry governor by pouring molten gold down his throat. Pouring hot liquids or metals, such as lead or gold, into the mouth of a victim was a practice used on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, by the Romans and the Spanish Inquisition among others.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 05:05:55 PM by Libertine »
Pour the wine, hold the grind, quarter to nine, let's go.



Re: AIG Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 05:56:13 PM
He was running his mouth about AIG and particularly Goldman Sachs about the time it was revealed that he liked to bone hookers in his free time.

You know, if the Premier of Victoria was boning st Kilda street hookers, then good luck to him. He's gonna need it. But essentially, I couldnt give a fuck about that. And no one else should.

If some smart arse salesman type fleeces me out of a few buck, I get pissed, mostly coz I should have known better. And I'll make it hard for him to get new customers.

When you get people who are so fucked up by their jobs in the pursuit of ever large monuments to themselves, then thats the time the flaming torches and the sharpened pikes need to be brought out.

AIG should be broken up once it is stable. And not AT&T broken up, broken up into hundreds of small companies. The economies of scale thing is a myth. Look at GM & Ford. They bought up car companies around the world, made themselves so diverse that it took up so much of managements time just looking after the various parts of the Empire that they lost focus on what they did for a living. Toyota didnt, they kept their eyes on the ball, and are now probably the biggest car manufacturer in the world. And they didnt do it by trying to decieve the public that there was a material difference between Chevrolet and Buick. A Toyota is a Toyota.



Re: AIG Reply #12 on: March 20, 2009, 07:00:02 PM
Ian, I thnk this will happen and it's the only way the US Government will recoup it's investment in AIG. The profitable pieces will be worth more split off than as part of the lumbering whole.

I have a weird feeling watching all this happen, I quit Goldman Sachs a couple of years back and joined an IT vendor. Ian knows this story, I needed to get out of there. Basically I would have eventualy been assigned to a trading desk as an analyst with an eye on dealing eventually. Today I'd probably be out of work.
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: AIG Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 07:06:46 PM
Economies of scale work to a point.  If you produce more of some part, you run the machine closer to capacity, you can get better rates on material because you're buying larger quantities, and the workers are productive because they actually have things to do when they're at work.

I think the actual manufacture of goods is the only place where economies of scale make sense, though.  And even there, it's very specific in how it works.  Most of the other places where people start talking about economies of scale, they really seem to be more interested in creating monopolies and just call them "markets of scale" because it's a more palatable term (and too few people were willing to call bullshit on, since corporate capitalism is the official religion of the US).

GM is a horrible example of markets of scale, because they ran a hundred different businesses that duplicated efforts.  Instead of paring down to their core business years ago when they first started having trouble and trying to do that well, like Toyota does, they attempted to buy market share by buying out other manufacturers.    
  



Re: AIG Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 07:16:45 PM
"You're in trouble? Good, we'll buy your business! Now... profit through synergies.... ZAM!"

Toyota has it's own murky underside which the government helps them shield from wider scrutiny
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3796/the_dark_side_of_the_toyota_prius/
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: AIG Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 10:41:12 PM
He was running his mouth about AIG and particularly Goldman Sachs about the time it was revealed that he liked to bone hookers in his free time.

You know, if the Premier of Victoria was boning st Kilda street hookers, then good luck to him. He's gonna need it. But essentially, I couldnt give a fuck about that. And no one else should.

What if he was using thousands of your tax dollars to pay the woman off?
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: AIG Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 11:03:50 PM
Quote
st Kilda street hookers
Quote
thousands of your tax dollars

not likely mate...
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: AIG Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 11:20:04 PM
Quote
I was listening to C-SPAN the other day and the argument that one of the Republican Senators was making against the bill is that it is unfair because it singles out certain individuals.

as much as we all may hate AIG emplyees getting bonuses, isn't that against the constitution to now tax them at 90%?  i'm thinking: bill of attainder and / or ex post facot legislation prohibitions in the constitution.  maybe the courts won't strike them down, but it's still unconstitutional i think (and thus wrong, whether struck or not)

as for mr. spitzer, the hypocrisy there was NOT the typical kind with politicians and ladies of the night... i think part of the hypocrisy with him was that he had actually busted up prostitution rings.  i'm all for prostitution being legal,  but someone who has busted that kind of activity, but then participates in it himself, can go fuck himself (and resign)
He indicated my book, said, 'It's that rubbish that has you the nobody you are.'



Re: AIG Reply #18 on: March 20, 2009, 11:50:45 PM
Yeah, since when have politicians ever been involved in duplicity.

Please note the extreme sarcasm.
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Re: AIG Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 01:49:24 AM
noted, how's the wine?
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: AIG Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 01:50:50 AM
funny you should mention that, it's delicious.
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Re: AIG Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
spitzer's was particularly hilarious... having been a prosecutor and prosecuting for the same crimes you're committing, that's awesome.

btw question:  why is that prostitutes get arrested?  (think: reno 911 or COPS) but never the guys visiting them??
He indicated my book, said, 'It's that rubbish that has you the nobody you are.'



Re: AIG Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 10:00:22 AM
Quote
I was listening to C-SPAN the other day and the argument that one of the Republican Senators was making against the bill is that it is unfair because it singles out certain individuals.

as much as we all may hate AIG emplyees getting bonuses, isn't that against the constitution to now tax them at 90%?  i'm thinking: bill of attainder and / or ex post facot legislation prohibitions in the constitution.  maybe the courts won't strike them down, but it's still unconstitutional i think (and thus wrong, whether struck or not)

Is the government trying to tax bonuses that were actually paid out in 2008, or were they paid out in 2009?  My dad's company generally pays bonuses for fiscal year 2008 in 2009.

If they were bonuses for 2008, but were actually paid in 2009, I don't think it would be unconstitutional, would it?  Or is the tax structure for 2009 supposedly set in stone and congress is only free to change things for 2010?



Re: AIG Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 10:01:01 AM
spitzer's was particularly hilarious... having been a prosecutor and prosecuting for the same crimes you're committing, that's awesome.

btw question:  why is that prostitutes get arrested?  (think: reno 911 or COPS) but never the guys visiting them??

Because the cops would have to arrest all of their friends!



Re: AIG Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 10:05:08 AM
when you're close to something like that for so long, you eventually wonder about it.
it would be interesting to hear the reality of his story; perhaps he started off trying to do the right thing, but then lost his way!

also, i've seen specific episodes where the johns are being stung by a police setup.  usually, though, i imagine the cops pull over to a suspicious street walker, do a search, and everything falls apart.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: AIG Reply #25 on: March 21, 2009, 02:25:30 PM
A Toyota is a Toyota.

Unless it's a Lexus. Or a Scion.
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: AIG Reply #26 on: March 21, 2009, 02:59:55 PM
i don't think it's that the tax code is set in stone, even with the prohibition against ex post facto legislation.  bill of attainder applies to legislation not being able to be targeted toward an individual or a small group, so like you couldn't tax the kennedy family at 90%.  likewise i'm assuming you coudln't tax AIG employees (i think the total number is under 100 that received bonuses) although you could tax a particular occupation or something i guess. 

i thought ex post facto applied to criminal only but some podcast i was listening to said it would apply there to them too.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/03/20/1846610.aspx

we'll have to finish this conversation over a romantic dessert.
He indicated my book, said, 'It's that rubbish that has you the nobody you are.'



Re: AIG Reply #27 on: March 21, 2009, 04:51:39 PM
spitzer's was particularly hilarious... having been a prosecutor and prosecuting for the same crimes you're committing, that's awesome.

btw question:  why is that prostitutes get arrested?  (think: reno 911 or COPS) but never the guys visiting them??

Johns get arrested too, sometimes the police also publish their names. It's pretty fucked up.
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Re: AIG Reply #28 on: March 21, 2009, 05:35:12 PM
I think Johns are less targets because it's like the whole drug-dealer versus drug-user dilemma.  The cops are interested in the big fish.



Re: AIG Reply #29 on: March 21, 2009, 07:23:49 PM
A Toyota is a Toyota.

Unless it's a Lexus. Or a Scion.

Yeah, ok... but they were start ups from memory.