http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

Do they sit around and plan more effective ways to make the whole world hate them or something?

The world already hates Jews. Haven't you heard?

It would be nice if Israel (and a number of other countries) would at least pretend that they cared about this sort of thing, instead of being outright dicks all of the time and counting on their patrons on the security council to make sure they don't even see minor sanctions.

I have no problem cutting aid to Israel. Last I checked, there are many countries and companies we could cut aid to in the aim of saving taxpayer dollars.

Israel claims that they have told everyone trying to break the blockade that if they simply let customs inspect their boats for arms and explosives they would be allowed to render aid. That several boatloads of hippy pinkos tried to run the blockade for several days before they were boarded at which time they attacked armed military personnel with clubs and knives. That the people who were killed did everything they could to provoke Israeli forces.

For some reason I tend to believe this. So while I feel for the families of those killed, when you fuck with the best prepared combat force in the world, after being given an alternative, you get what you deserve.

Point.

I don't think the IDF has any credibility.  Even if their story is true, military censorship, their history of humanitarian violations, and holding the civilians undermines their position to the point of making it unbelievable.

I also find their excuse for boarding ships in international waters as unacceptable as the US's imaginary war on terror that's used to justify every stupid thing we have done with our military in recent years.  They won't let pipes and cement into Gaza because they're at war with Hamas and construction materials can be used to build bunkers!  They're at war with Hamas so they can board ships in international waters!  They can take prisoners off of boats flying under a Turkish flag in international waters because they're at war with Hamas!

Bullshit. 


And ultimately, regardless of the truth of this incident, Israel has put itself into a horrible position over the past three years by creating a humanitarian disaster in Gaza as retaliation against Hamas.  This decision to drop commandos on to the boat is a disaster beyond whatever happened - they've created new friction with Turkey and Egypt has opened the border to Gaza.  And more boats are on the way to run the blockade, so there's going to be fresh confrontation.

I agree with everything you say in general Emp but even a stopped clock is correct twice a day. I have no love for Israel or the IDF. I just don't think fucking around with them is a good idea. They will always come ready to wipe you out and have proven it time and time again. It's a bad idea to make a point with your life.

Martyrdom means you're dead and damn little more.

Dead hippy pinko's make me laugh.

Like that hippy pinko in Japan who tried to make a citizens arrest on a Japanese whaler. Best bit is all these Jap neo cons coming out of the woodworks baying for him to swing.

I agree with everything you say in general Emp but even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

Don't go all special on us Bri...

I don't think the IDF has any credibility.  Even if their story is true, military censorship, their history of humanitarian violations, and holding the civilians undermines their position to the point of making it unbelievable.

I also find their excuse for boarding ships in international waters as unacceptable as the US's imaginary war on terror that's used to justify every stupid thing we have done with our military in recent years.  They won't let pipes and cement into Gaza because they're at war with Hamas and construction materials can be used to build bunkers!  They're at war with Hamas so they can board ships in international waters!  They can take prisoners off of boats flying under a Turkish flag in international waters because they're at war with Hamas!

Bullshit. 


And ultimately, regardless of the truth of this incident, Israel has put itself into a horrible position over the past three years by creating a humanitarian disaster in Gaza as retaliation against Hamas.  This decision to drop commandos on to the boat is a disaster beyond whatever happened - they've created new friction with Turkey and Egypt has opened the border to Gaza.  And more boats are on the way to run the blockade, so there's going to be fresh confrontation.

Also all valid points, but...

I have no love for Israel or the IDF. I just don't think fucking around with them is a good idea. They will always come ready to wipe you out and have proven it time and time again.

...this is totally true. Israel does not give a flying fuck what you or anyone else thinks, they're gonna do what they do. I'm not particularly pro- or anti-Israel, in that it was a fucked up situation that landed them where they are, and they are a small island in a sea of people who want them dead. But the thuggish way they do things pisses me off, as does the fact that they can get away with all sorts of things that nations who don't have a big scary brother to back them up couldn't.

It's a bad idea to make a point with your life.

Martyrdom means you're dead and damn little more.

If only more people realized this.

I don't have any sympathy for Israel.  No matter what happened in the past, the leadership there has shown themselves to be morally bankrupt.  I think it's particularly egregious for a nation that supposedly has such a strong memory of oppression to behave as they do.

I also don't think it's a fucked up situation that Israel landed where it is, it was a myopic obsession with a Holy Land.  There were other options for establishing a Jewish home state, including an outright offer by the British to set it up in Uganda.  The Zionist movement insisted on what was probably the single most hostile option possible.

Do I need to reiterate my position here that Jews and Israel are two different things. Israel is a Nazi concentration camp where the Jews are used as duped unwitting fodder to facilitate long term Nazi goals.

I also don't think it's a fucked up situation that Israel landed where it is, it was a myopic obsession with a Holy Land.  There were other options for establishing a Jewish home state, including an outright offer by the British to set it up in Uganda.  The Zionist movement insisted on what was probably the single most hostile option possible.

I didn't know that. That's fucking stupid. I can only imagine that if Israel weren't in a self-imposed danger-zone and instead only had to contend with its African neighbours (who aren't their sworn enemies, at least), it could be the same damn country it is today but nobody would hear about it, cuz way fewer people would wanna fuck with it. Eh, I may well be wrong. But willingly living in a dangerous ghetto just because your family once owned a home there seems insane if there are other options.

Do I need to reiterate my position here that Jews and Israel are two different things. Israel is a Nazi concentration camp where the Jews are used as duped unwitting fodder to facilitate long term Nazi goals.

I dunno man, I know a fuckload of Israelis and a bunch of other folks who've spent time and/or lived in Israel. These people party HARD.