×

Quote from: Zoomie
No you don't, you just make him wear a Nixon mask.[/size]
Quote from: Daddy
As if his dick wouldn't be tricky enough...


so... Intelligent Design(Read 11183 times)
so... Intelligent Design on: March 24, 2009, 08:08:36 PM
How's this coming along in the USA these days? We haven't heard anything in the foreign media in a while...
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 08:20:12 PM
bwahahaha yeah what a concept.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 08:33:55 PM
I dunno, it actually makes more sense than most of the religious crap. I've long thought that people sell their god short. If "he" is so damned all-knowing, all-seeing, etc, why do people think they can understand what "he" is up to, or what "his" plan is?

Maybe cuz we invented "him"?
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 09:41:19 PM
ID is religious crap. I'm not getting involved in this thread for fear of tiring those of weak constitution, but I'll just leave this: Recent Gallup Poll shows 39% of Americans believe in Evolution
USA! USA! USA!
Fuck yeah.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 10:07:40 PM
OK, agreed, it's religious crap, but isn't it at least basically saying that we've evolved cuz that's god's plan for us?

Beats the shit out of the Adam and Eve bullshit, doesn't it?
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 11:04:11 PM
You know, when you sit down and really start thinking about reality, matter, energy, the Universe... How big is the universe? Where does it end? Does it end? What's on the other side of it? What if there is no end? Matter is energy, but why has it formed into matter, and how come out of all of this shit that just happened that I have consciousness and in an extremely short amount of time why is the human race already learning how to rip it all apart at the seams?

I mean, just the fact that all of this crazy shit existsmakes intelligent design as likely as anything else (in my mind).

What I mean is that I find existence itself just as unlikely as anything else. Why should there be a universe? It wouldn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things if there wasn't. Right?
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 12:44:46 AM
For me, ID is not so much about the rational sounding point of view that it projects, its the selling of obvious religious concepts in Orwellian newspeak that makes me disregard it.

Physics theory is just as batshit. And just as impossible to prove.






Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 09:14:48 AM
You know, when you sit down and really start thinking about reality, matter, energy, the Universe... How big is the universe? Where does it end? Does it end? What's on the other side of it? What if there is no end? Matter is energy, but why has it formed into matter, and how come out of all of this shit that just happened that I have consciousness and in an extremely short amount of time why is the human race already learning how to rip it all apart at the seams?

There are actually some really good answers to those questions.  The universe's size is measured in light years, and is based on our measurements of the CMB.  Where the universe ends is actually a meaningless question, since the spacetime occupied by the universe defines the borders of where something CAN exist.  The matter-to-energy question is a pretty interesting one too, and people have spent the last 60 years trying to work that out.  It's interesting.

And you're giving the human race too much credit.  The closest we've come to ripping apart the universe is POTENTIALLY being able to make a MICRO black hole, and all that would do is destroy Earth.  And we'll only be able to do that if we can fire up the new accelerator in Europe (which we use to smash very small particles against one another, to see what happens - yes, this is our science at work!).

Physics theory is just as batshit. And just as impossible to prove.

Untrue!  Proving quantum physics theories is the reason we have particle accelerators and such.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 09:15:16 AM
PS - Intelligent Design is bullshit.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 10:32:19 AM
Quote
There are actually some really good answers to those questions.  The universe's size is measured in light years, and is based on our measurements of the CMB.  Where the universe ends is actually a meaningless question, since the spacetime occupied by the universe defines the borders of where something CAN exist.  The matter-to-energy question is a pretty interesting one too, and people have spent the last 60 years trying to work that out.  It's interesting.

What we have is an idea of how large the OBSERVABLE universe might be, but really, what does it look like to someone on the edge of that universe? Do you see galaxies on one side of you and nothingness on the other? Or does the Universe's own gravity bend light around itself so that you see shit all around you and have no idea that you're on the "edge"?

Additionally you can't simply discount the question of where the universe ends as a meaningless question based on the rationale that spacetime occupied by the universe defines the borders of where something CAN exist, because if the Universe exists and can expand to occupy more space then there must already be space for it to occupy, right?

Quote
And you're giving the human race too much credit.  The closest we've come to ripping apart the universe is POTENTIALLY being able to make a MICRO black hole, and all that would do is destroy Earth.  And we'll only be able to do that if we can fire up the new accelerator in Europe (which we use to smash very small particles against one another, to see what happens - yes, this is our science at work!).

Too much credit? Here's the story so far... Universe springs up out of nowhere, life gets created. Life evolves, monkeys lose their fur and start using stone tools. Intelligence of furless monkies increases, sharing of knowledge advances technology faster and faster. Then you get the atomic bomb. Next thing you know we're ripping apart particles to see what makes matter, space and time itself tick. With our meager intelligence we're actually trying to reverse engineer the Universe with a small measure of success. How is that too much credit?

Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 02:24:11 PM
The egg came first.
Quote from: FB comment
Look dude, there's only one thing I like that starts with Hot Black Co- and it doesn't end in 'ffee'.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 05:15:57 PM
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 05:18:40 PM by Libertine »
Pour the wine, hold the grind, quarter to nine, let's go.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 08:57:16 PM
Here's the main problem:  "Advocates of intelligent design argue that it is a scientific theory, and seek to fundamentally redefine science to accept supernatural explanations. The consensus in the scientific community is that intelligent design is not science." (wiki'd).  The proponents of intelligent design in its current state are not themselves very intelligent.  It is complete antithesis to modern scientific method, and trying to get it condoned as science is both wrong and completely misguided.  The argument itself is a philosophical, theological, maybe even observational one, but it is certainly not a scientific one because it cannot be measure in any real quantifiable way by man.  And to try to advocate that it be taught in primary schools as FACT is completely misguided and dangerous -- there is inherently no way to prove it as fact short of god himself gracing our presence and saying to the people of earth "yes, this is what i did, pretty sweet huh?" so there is no point in teaching it to people as fact.

That's what really shapes my opinion of ID.  If you want to argue that evolution is a wrench and God's running around tightening the bolts on all of creation, that's fine with me.

If you want to have a religion & philosophy class and discuss that, it's fine with me too.

Just keep it out of science classes.  Science is concerned with the wrench, not who conceivably might be turning it.

On the other hand, a part of me thinks there is a big stake of things that science cannot explain but may gradually attain the ability to do so.  Supernatural phenomenon if you will.  Theoretical physics is one of the only fields that attempts a lot of these things, but throughout history science has gradually whittled these types of things away and they have been "explained by man" to rational processes.  There are also probably some things that man will never be able to solve rationally and the perpetual existence of these unexplained mysteries of the universe will continue to allow those who purport a "God theory" room to debate until absolutely 100% of all phenomenon can be attributed somehow which is a virtual impossibility.

I think there are a vast number of questions that humans will never be able to adequately answer with science.  I doubt we'll hit the technological levels necessary to make such investigations (of course that's my own bias, because I'm firmly convinced we're headed to a technological peak and subsequent decline).

Plus, there's always philosophical skepticism to fall back on!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 08:59:12 PM by Emperor Reagan »



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 08:57:35 PM
@Libertine: Well said.
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 08:32:20 AM
Physics theory is just as batshit. And just as impossible to prove.

Untrue!  Proving quantum physics theories is the reason we have particle accelerators and such.

You may as well spend that money trying to prove God exists. So you smash a few particals together, you observe the results, and you then try to fit it to the theory.
Remember, theories are not always able to be proven. That's why they're called theories.

Tell me that the concept of a piece of matter existing in two places at the same time isnt as wacky a concept as a God who oversees everything.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 09:16:59 AM
Physics theory is just as batshit. And just as impossible to prove.

Untrue!  Proving quantum physics theories is the reason we have particle accelerators and such.

You may as well spend that money trying to prove God exists. So you smash a few particals together, you observe the results, and you then try to fit it to the theory.
Remember, theories are not always able to be proven. That's why they're called theories.

Tell me that the concept of a piece of matter existing in two places at the same time isnt as wacky a concept as a God who oversees everything.

Arguably, this is the same thing I was saying to Doormouse in another thread.  I figured I'd give his side of the argument a shot here.  :P
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 09:17:15 AM by eitje »
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 09:23:40 AM
What we have is an idea of how large the OBSERVABLE universe might be, but really, what does it look like to someone on the edge of that universe? Do you see galaxies on one side of you and nothingness on the other? Or does the Universe's own gravity bend light around itself so that you see shit all around you and have no idea that you're on the "edge"?

it would be extremely dark, since the edge of the universe would have very little visible light (most of its edge being high-energy particles released during the big bang).  stay in one place long enough, and you'd eventually see something, but then you wouldn't be at the edge of the universe anymore!

Additionally you can't simply discount the question of where the universe ends as a meaningless question based on the rationale that spacetime occupied by the universe defines the borders of where something CAN exist, because if the Universe exists and can expand to occupy more space then there must already be space for it to occupy, right?

No, you really can discount it!

The problem is, we're too hung up on thinking about things, so even nothing ends up having some physical parameters; a box full of nothing is bounded within a certain space.  Even a vacuum in space has a boundary that can be measured by travelling through it.

but the universe's shape is defined by the contents of the universe.  whatever the furthest point of the universe is, that point will be occupied by matter and/or energy.  and if you ask "what's beyond that point?", it's really nothing...  because there's actually nothing there to define the spacetime.

so, to prove me wrong, you travel to the edge of the universe, and then go BEYOND the point.  You say "see?  there WAS something beyond the edge of the universe!"  but now, YOU are the thing defining the edge of the universe.

What's beyond you?  Throw a baseball - now it defines the edge.

And so on, and so on, and so on.  Turtles, all the way down.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 10:21:55 AM
Quote
No, you really can discount it!

It's nice to see that the ideas you've decided on are the right ones.  I think you should start writing letters to the physicists, astrophysicists, and astronomers who wonder what, if anything, lies beyond the edge of the universe. Do it in your own blood and use postage stamps that you made yourself with crayons so they know to take you seriously.

Quote
it would be extremely dark, since the edge of the universe would have very little visible light (most of its edge being high-energy particles released during the big bang).  stay in one place long enough, and you'd eventually see something, but then you wouldn't be at the edge of the universe anymore!

I guess I'm thinking more being just a bit inside the edge rather than right on it. Some physicists think it's that it may be impossible for even light to leave the universe because of the universe's own gravity. The universe becomes it's own gravitational lens, bending light back upon itself. If that's the case then it could be really difficult to ever find an actual "edge" if one does indeed exist.

Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 03:00:29 PM
you homoes are arguing about stuff that nobody will ever know way to waiste your time nerds.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 05:19:55 PM



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 06:04:35 PM
Thanks to modern technology, and a small fee, pious christians don't even have to pray for themselves anymore.
Now they can reserve their place in heaven ... on autopilot.

Information Age Prayer

"Information Age Prayer is a subscription service utilizing a computer with text-to-speech capability to incant your prayers each day. It gives you the satisfaction of knowing that your prayers will always be said even if you wake up late, or forget."
Reality; A shared narrative we all agree to believe.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 06:37:34 PM
God ignored stephen hawking, I doubt the christains will have better luck.
Quote from: FB comment
Look dude, there's only one thing I like that starts with Hot Black Co- and it doesn't end in 'ffee'.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Physics theory is just as batshit. And just as impossible to prove.

Untrue!  Proving quantum physics theories is the reason we have particle accelerators and such.

You may as well spend that money trying to prove God exists. So you smash a few particals together, you observe the results, and you then try to fit it to the theory.
Remember, theories are not always able to be proven. That's why they're called theories.

Tell me that the concept of a piece of matter existing in two places at the same time isnt as wacky a concept as a God who oversees everything.

I'm with Mosh.
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 08:28:27 PM
yup. Silly Christians and their "one true God".
No Nyarlathotep, no chaos...
KNOW NYARLATHOTEP, KNOW CHAOS!



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #24 on: March 27, 2009, 04:01:02 AM
Allah Akbar!

Religion might seem like hokum, some of its concepts are crazy and all, but it does do an awful lot of good for a lot of people.

Science might be rational and all, but there is a lot of it that is plainly insane. Some of the outputs from scientific discoveries are straight up frightening.

I think a society where technocrats rule would be just as awful to live in as one where the leading religion is in charge.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 04:13:21 AM by Mosh »



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #25 on: March 27, 2009, 11:51:08 AM
you and I should be running this show. Put another leg of lamb on the barbie
Loaded-Gun.com - I don't know what the hell they are talking about or why they are even there. They don't make serious points and they don't joke, but they still manage to make a lot of posts somehow.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #26 on: March 27, 2009, 04:22:48 PM
you and I should be running this show. Put another leg of lamb on the barbie

We'll fuckin' lead as two kings...
Pour the wine, hold the grind, quarter to nine, let's go.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #27 on: March 27, 2009, 08:38:42 PM
you and I should be running this show. Put another leg of lamb on the barbie

Too much like hard work.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #28 on: March 28, 2009, 08:03:49 AM
I'm an agnostic and a hater of organized religion, but I think that the possibility that there might be some intelligent design makes a lot of sense.  Like, how in the shit does a plant know that it is easy prey, so it somehow sends genetic signals to it's offspring to grow spines as a defense?  Or how in the blazing fuck does the Rafflesia arnoldii realize that by creating the smell of rotting flesh, that it can attract flies to pollinate it?  I mean, this shit boggles my mind.

A while ago I found out that Ben Stein, who is an extremely intelligent and educated man, made a documentary called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" exploring the concept of intelligent design that received almost universally negative reviews from people calling it religious propaganda and full of lies and falsehoods.  This surprised me because I didn't think that Ben Stein could make such an alleged ignorant film....

Well the amazing part was that after I watched it, and read so many of the countless negative reviews and the few positive reviews just from stupid Christians, I realized that those people JUST DIDN'T GET THE FILM.  I was like, wow, am I the only one who understands what Mr. Stein was driving at and that he made quite a remarkable and interesting film that made actual intelligent points?  I think the simple fact is that it went over the heads of the majority of people who watched it because they lacked the intellect and the minimum agnostic open-minded view to comprehend it.
~
A pleasant man with a pleasant weapon



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #29 on: March 28, 2009, 10:45:26 AM
That's a movie I've been meaning to watch for a while now.

I'm a documentary junkie.
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #30 on: March 28, 2009, 11:01:29 AM
That's a movie I've been meaning to watch for a while now.

I'm a documentary junkie.

Hopefully you'll see it the way I did and not the way the majority of reviewers did.  Is it too good for you to torrent or would you like me to find a good link?

I should watch it again, just to process it a second time.
~
A pleasant man with a pleasant weapon



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #31 on: March 28, 2009, 11:47:56 AM
A guy at work has a copy of the DVD for me, I just have to get it from him.
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #32 on: March 28, 2009, 07:53:57 PM
Is that the doco about the court case where 2 of the school board tried to get ID on the science curriculum?



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #33 on: March 29, 2009, 04:49:59 AM
You see, this is the thing.

Neitzsche once said, "Existence is absurd." Now, I don't pretend to be on the same level of thought as men like Neitzsche or Sartre but I came to this same conclusion myself when I was ten, and sitting in my room thinking. It started with trying to figure out religion, really, and over the years I've expanded it to a lengthy diatribe on why religion and atheism/science are one and the same.

I've been trying to think of a name for it, and the best I've come up with as of yet is "The construction of the self through the deconstruction of reality."

You start with "I." I know that I exist because I am aware that I exist. Cogito Ergo Sum - I think therefore I am. The fact that I am aware, and can question the validity of my existence proves that I indeed exist. All that is around me, this computer, my home, the people I see every day could, for all I know, be false illusions created by my mind to entertain myself and distract me from the fact that I am alone, but I know beyond any doubt that I DO exist, because I can ask the question, "Do I exist?"

I also know that I had an origin. I have a first thought, a first memory, and at some point I took my very first action, meaning that I originated from somewhere before that. The only information I have to go (without creating wild speculation) on are my senses and memories, so from them I can make assumptions as to where I came from.

Logic concludes that I came from Mother. Mother is the first other. My early memory is of her, and from what I've learned in my life I seem to have come from her, and since I know I have an origin, I cannot exist without having come from somewhere, so logic lends it to be true. and now Mother exists. There are two in the universe.

So where did mother come from? Her mother, and her mother and so on and so on, which could go on forever, so we generalize it. Where did "mother" come from? Humanity. Without the existence of humanity, neither mother nor I can exist, and we've proven both to be true, so this means that humanity also has to exist. So we've now proven the existence of the human race.

Where did humanity come from? The Earth. We share chemicals and minerals in our bodies in common with the elements that make up the Earth, so it stands to reason that the Earth is where our bodies - and basically we - came from. How they came to that specific configuration so that we can walk around and move about is a point of oft dispute, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so we'll just ignore it.

So where did the Earth come from? The Solar System. We see the sun, feel its heat, and have viewed the other planets and their rotation, and how their movements/alignment affect the Earth's movment, so basically the Earth cannot exist without the Solar system also existing.

Where did the Solar System come from? The Galaxy. We observe it, we study it, in much the same way as the planets in the solar system, so also the stars in the galaxy must exist in order for our own Sun to be allowed to exist and operate in its pattern.

Where did the Galaxy come from? The Universe. However it operates, it's cyclical, like all of the galaxies we can see, and it must exist to contain the existence and movements of all the galaxies, including ours. So we've proven that the universe exists.

So... where did the Universe come from? This is a point of much debate, but for the purposes of time constraints, you can narrow it down to two major factions: Religion or Science. Science believes that the Universe was brought into existence by a random explosion of energy, and most religions believe that the Universe was created by one god or another. Completely different, right? This is where the path diverges into two. So which one do you choose? Take the blue pill, and follow science, or do you take the red pill, and bow to religion?

For the purposes of simplicity, we'll take the path of science first. So, if the universe came from the big bang, where did that come from? An explosion of energy of that magnitude had to come from somewhere, some potential of some kind... so where? There are a lot of theories as to where, my personal favorite being Ekpyrotic, about two cosmic branes colliding every few eons to create a universe, but even if that one - or any of the others - turn out to be provable, then where did they come from? For them to exist they had to have an origin, even if they're nothing more than energy, that energy had to come from some potential... something had to set it in motion at some point. So, what did? And what set that into motion? And what set that into motion?

Now we backtrack, and take the other fork in the road: religion. So if God created the universe, then what created God? He's a being, a consciousness, at some point he had his first thought, took his first action... so from where did he originate? Was he created by an even higher being? Did he coalesce from some pool of chaos that existed before the universe? If so, then where did that pool of metaphysical protoplasm come from? And where did that come from? Etc, etc.

So what you can see is that these two branches of the road, these two hotly debated beliefs about the origins of the Universe, and of existence itself, only diverge for a short time until they finally come back together in one unifying commonality, one concept of origin:

In the beginning there was nothing.

And from that nothing, came something.

Of which all matter, energy, and all of existence was born from.

Existence is absurd.

The fact that we exist, that ANYTHING exists, is paradox.
No one mourns the wicked.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #34 on: March 29, 2009, 11:43:40 AM
TLDR
~
A pleasant man with a pleasant weapon



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #35 on: March 29, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Basically yeah, when working with complete unknowns, the conclusions you draw require the person interpreting them to have faith in their accuracy (either faith in science or faith in God), because the extreme ends of both origin theories are neither provable and the real reason for our existence could be something that humans haven't even begun to understand or theorize about.
Pour the wine, hold the grind, quarter to nine, let's go.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #36 on: March 29, 2009, 03:04:29 PM
Be excellent to each other.
Skybox, right up here in section La-Di-Dah.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #37 on: March 29, 2009, 07:48:04 PM
Be excellent to each other.

Totally.
~
A pleasant man with a pleasant weapon



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #38 on: March 31, 2009, 10:53:48 AM
I'm an agnostic and a hater of organized religion, but I think that the possibility that there might be some intelligent design makes a lot of sense.  Like, how in the shit does a plant know that it is easy prey, so it somehow sends genetic signals to it's offspring to grow spines as a defense?  Or how in the blazing fuck does the Rafflesia arnoldii realize that by creating the smell of rotting flesh, that it can attract flies to pollinate it?  I mean, this shit boggles my mind.

There aren't genetic signals, or a realization in plants.  Instead, you have change over time that looks like magic to people that live on average less than 100 years.

Consider a field of plants.  We'll call them "Danzigs".  These plants are all just chilling, enjoying the wind and the sun.  Over time, they populate a few other nearby fields, and maybe a few riverbanks.

Now, the Danzigs that are down next to the river, they have to survive against regular spring floods.

If there are 100 Danzigs next to the river, and 100 of them die in a flood every year for a thousand years, then you'll see no adaptation for surviving floods because there's no species survival.
If there are 100 Danzigs next to the river, and 0 of them die in a flood every year for a thousand years, then you'll also see no adaptation for surviving floods because there's no selective forces at work.
If there are 100 Danzigs next to the river, and 80 of them die in a flood every year for a thousand years, then you'll eventually end up with a set of Danzigs that are well-adapted to floods because there is a selective force that causes a living species to change over time.

The Danzigs that are not next to the river will not adapt to flooding.  Perhaps they'll adapt to strong winds (100 Danzigs, 40 blown down/yr), or a lot of heat(100 Danzigs, 60 lost to drought/yr), or predators (100 Danzigs, 90 eaten/yr).  But, over time, the River Danzigs and the Field Danzigs might cross-polinate, resulting in features from each being included in the genetic history of the other.

Long story short, thorns came about because some plants weren't eaten and were allowed to continue to live.  some flowers smell like shit because flys were drawn to those shit-smelling flowers more often than the non-shit-smelling flowers during breeding.

Evolution is about selective forces applied to populations.  Evolution isn't a conscious decision, it's just the end result of shit dying.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 10:57:55 AM by eitje »
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #39 on: March 31, 2009, 02:59:52 PM
Exactly. And for every right move that any given organism makes, there are a fuckload of wrong ones that don't stick around because they didn't work. It's not magic, more like guesswork.

And that said, for every organism that makes enough right guesses to stick around, there are a fuckload of organisms that didn't make enough right moves in time to survive at all.
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #40 on: April 01, 2009, 11:20:28 PM
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #41 on: April 02, 2009, 10:30:28 PM
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121675178/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Quote
The ability of an animal to shed its tail is a widespread antipredator strategy among lizards. The degree of expression of this defense is expected to be shaped by prevailing environmental conditions including local predation pressure. We test these hypotheses by comparing several aspects of caudal autotomy in 15 Mediterranean lizard taxa existing across a swath of mainland and island localities that differ in the number and identity of predator species present. Autotomic ease varied substantially among the study populations, in a pattern that is best explained by the presence of vipers. Neither insularity nor the presence of other types of predators explain the observed autotomy rates.

So, here we have a study where the presence of vipers (a predator with poison) is providing a selective pressure that normal predators in other locations is not able to provide.  Thus, the lizards that have survived in those areas are the ones which were able to detach their tails.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #42 on: April 03, 2009, 12:17:55 AM
Why don't they just evolve into birds that eat the snakes?
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #43 on: April 03, 2009, 12:18:53 AM
Why don't they just evolve into birds that eat the snakes?
i hate you.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #44 on: April 06, 2009, 09:22:15 AM
More information on how evolution works.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122294661/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Quote
If a species is translocated outside its native range, some of its traits (evolved to match conditions in the ancestral range) likely will be maladaptive.

The spread of cane toads (Bufo marinus, native to central and South America) through tropical Australia has created major ecological problems. Although many native predators cannot deal with the toxins of the invasive toads, 'meat ants' (Iridomyrmex reburrus) kill and consume many metamorph toads. Might this be a mismatch between the invader and its newly invaded range, whereby the morphology, locomotor ability and/or behaviour of cane toads renders them vulnerable to a predator that poses little danger to native anurans?

Unlike the frogs, (1) toads selected open microhabitats and were active diurnally, thus increasing encounter rates with meat ants; (2) toads failed to detect and evade approaching ants; (3) toads exhibited poor locomotor ability (short slow hops, reflecting their small size and short limbs); and (4) toads frequently relied on an ineffective defence mechanism (crypsis) when attacked.

In combination, these traits rendered cane toad metamorphs far more susceptible to predation by meat ants than were any of the native frogs tested. That vulnerability presumably reflects lack of coevolution between cane toads and Australian ants.
Like yours.  Only different.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #45 on: April 06, 2009, 09:35:41 AM
Australian ants are bastards.

Bull ants hurt when they bite. I mean really hurt.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #46 on: April 06, 2009, 01:27:23 PM
Wait till the fire ants make it down south.

or the cane toads, tripping over them in the dark can cause major damage.
Quote from: FB comment
Look dude, there's only one thing I like that starts with Hot Black Co- and it doesn't end in 'ffee'.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #47 on: April 06, 2009, 02:19:36 PM
Just have a friend baby sit you!
Go to these sites, and don't forget to tell your friends!
KimboFever.com
MyWebTrash.com
d00dj00sux0r.com



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #48 on: April 06, 2009, 05:57:56 PM
We have fire ants here. They fucking suck.
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #49 on: April 07, 2009, 06:46:42 PM
Some people have reactions to fire ant bites, and have to take medication for the rest of their lives.

I fucking hate insects.
Skybox, right up here in section La-Di-Dah.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #50 on: April 07, 2009, 07:32:17 PM
I once popped a fire ant bite on my foot and managed to squirt myself in the eye. True story.
ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better.



Re: so... Intelligent Design Reply #51 on: April 07, 2009, 08:21:50 PM
I have a scar on my ankle from when I was a kid and like, ten or twenty fire ants bit me in the same spot at once, and it got infected or something and put me into a fever.
No one mourns the wicked.