EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. --Moses in retribution against unbelievers among his own people.

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)


"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

So this thread is now about what a dick God is in general?

God is nice. I like God. God is my friend.

If god were alive to read tha, im sure it would be pleased.

I don't think God would like being called an 'It'.

Our God is a vengeful God he reigns from heaven above with merciless vengeance and decimation, our God is a vengeful God.

I don't think God would like being called an 'It'.

You believe god has a gender?

No, but 'It' can sound rude.

Is god that petty? Isn't god supposed to be omnipotent?

"It" is a gender neutral pronoun.  Surely God can look it up at m-w.com and find out that we're just selecting the appropriate pronoun for a genderless deity!

What people don't understand is that the God of the Old Testament is not the same as the God of the New Testament. The God of the New Testament is a God of love and peace and understanding... whereas the God of the Old Testament was a prick.
-Lewis Black

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. --Moses in retribution against unbelievers among his own people.

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

 In 25:4, who were these "people" and what were their "heads"?

 Either you don't know or you are deliberately leaving it unsaid to make an unpleasant passage appear genocidal.


 In Exodus 32:27 you have what amounts to a purge of those who took up the worship of golden idols while the Jews were still lost in the desert, and moses orders those who have not lost faith to eliminate them before they get everyone killed.

 It's bloody and nasty, seriously, Tru, I think you know how disengenuous it is to compare the situational acts of mayhem from the Old Testamen to Islam's calls to permanently sustained genocide. Plus, you know, stuff like how any women captured are divided amongst the jihadis for use as sex slaves, with the blessing of Allah, and all that.

 You came to the party but you brought no sauce, old man.

Not that there aren't any practicing (and utterly clueless) Muslims who are genuinely good people

It's funny that the Muslims you'd call utterly clueless are the only ones that don't fit your preconceptions of violence. Have you considered that maybe the preconceptions are faulty?
Would you say the Christians who ignore the dietary restrictions portion of their Bible are utterly clueless? Would you say that Christians that believe the story of Adam and Eve is a figurative legend and not a literal description are utterly clueless? The fact that the Quran has instructions to harm nonbelievers within its voluminous suras doesn't mean that non-violent Muslims are utterly clueless.

 I say clueless because they are the Muslims who are clueless as to the faith they lay claim to. They are the ones who have never read anything more than a few passaged of the Koran and in some cases don't even read or speak any Arabic. They are in short Muslims in name only.

 My preconceptions are not preconceptions. A preconception is formed PREVIOUS to attaining actual knowledge of a subject.

 Your preconceptions of myself, for example.

Is god that petty? Isn't god supposed to be omnipotent?

Petty? If I said I don't like your shirt and you were slightly offended by it because you spent hours trying to decide which to wear, it wouldn't make you petty.
Petty would be if you chucked a drink over me and told me you hated me.

I say clueless because they are the Muslims who are clueless as to the faith they lay claim to. They are the ones who have never read anything more than a few passaged of the Koran and in some cases don't even read or speak any Arabic. They are in short Muslims in name only.

You could probably make a pretty good argument that most people who identify with any particular religion are clueless.  Most Christian churches, for example, teach a very limited portion of Christian theology in their Sunday schools & Sunday sermons.

It's all bullshit.

Petty? If I said I don't like your shirt and you were slightly offended by it because you spent hours trying to decide which to wear, it wouldn't make you petty.
Petty would be if you chucked a drink over me and told me you hated me.

If I were to walk up to Brad Pitt and call him ugly, I somehow doubt his ego would take much of a hit. If I were to see Manny Pacquiao on the street and call him a pussy, I don't think he'd be terribly intimidated. If someone who likes to put a couple bucks now and then on their favourite teams to win were to tell me that I don't know shit about gambling, I'd be vaguely amused. Is god really insecure in its omnipotence?

I just see it as respect.

Sock it to me!

I say clueless because they are the Muslims who are clueless as to the faith they lay claim to. They are the ones who have never read anything more than a few passaged of the Koran and in some cases don't even read or speak any Arabic. They are in short Muslims in name only.

 My preconceptions are not preconceptions. A preconception is formed PREVIOUS to attaining actual knowledge of a subject.

 Your preconceptions of myself, for example.

You've identified as "utterly clueless" the class of "practicing Muslims who are genuinely good people." The preconception is not that the Muslims you've met are utterly clueless, but rather than "Muslims who are genuinely good people" are clueless. Your suggestion is that the only thing holding the "genuinely good" Muslims back from terrible violence is their utter cluelessness about what is written in their holy book. In other words if I read you right, your belief is that in order to be a good Muslim you have to follow every passage of the Quran to the letter.

If this is the case then you should now understand why I ended my last post with a series of examples where practicing Christians who are genuinely good people are not considered "utterly clueless" despite their failure to follow their holy book to the letter.

As far as my own preconceptions of you, perhaps it would clear matters up if you were to explain what exactly your credentials are.
How do you know so much about what Islam *really* is that you can argue with those fake Muslims who think their religion doesn't emphasize violence as the only means to an end?
What sort of actual knowledge about Islam do you possess that allows you to conceive the issue from such a position of clarity?

God can suck my left testie.

He can do a lot of things, he's omnipotent, remember?

Tru, I think you know how disengenuous it is to compare the situational acts of mayhem from the Old Testamen to Islam's calls to permanently sustained genocide.

I don't think it disingenuous Balor. I was simply posting passages that mimic those posted for Islam. Christians want to distance themselves from the old testament where as the Koran simply holds more true to the actual foundations of christianity while the sheep like christian hypocrites of today prefer to simply provide lip service to their god. Which would no doubt piss their god the fuck off if he existed.

Whatever is said in the Koran is simply in service to the very same god the jews and christian profess to believe in. As much as modern religion wants they simply can't have it both ways. Either their god is in fact a mass murdering maniac enlisting people like Mohammad to do their dirty work which would actually be fine if it were true and provable, or he doesn't exist at all and all three of the main religions currently jostling each other for position have absolutely no valid foundations.

I subscribe to the latter. In fact I believe that the old testament and the story of the jews is wholly fabricated, modern christianity (and all of it's current branches) is certainly beyond any doubt a complete fabrication concocted by politicians.

I subscribe to the view that the historical elements of these books are all (or mostly all) true. I think Moses probably did lead a contingent away from the Pharaoh, I think the Midianites really were slaughtered, and I think Jesus was a real person. I don't believe God caused the Ten Plagues, however. I don't believe God commanded the slaughter of the Midianites, and I don't believe Joshua bar Joseph was the son of a supernatural deity.

Yeah some of the historical figures certainly existed, but I don't believe there were ever any Hebrew slaves in Egypt or a very small number at best.
ALL of the supernatural shit was added and compilation of the book itself was a product of con men in my opinion.

That said, I don't care what a bunch of weirdos want to fill their spiritual void with. As long as your religion doesn't interfere with my life (even if by literal interpretation it would command you to) then I'm fine with you believing whatever you want. It doesn't cause me any loss of sleep if you think I'm going to hell or if you think I should be dead for my non-belief. Provided you don't actually "send me to hell" or "kill me" or otherwise interfere with my freedom then shine on you crazy diamond. I reserve the right to think less of you for it of course.

What bugs me is comments like 'anyone who follows a religion is a fool...brainwashed...blah blah blah'
I don't judge atheists but plenty of them judge me.

Say I was an atheist in England, and I wanted to promote my "cause", say by advertising on the side of a bus, what do you think the authorities would do? Allow it?

Nope.

Go look it up, because it actually happened. I think plenty of religious people judge atheists in the same way. Maybe not yourself, but many do.

Simply having a religion is pretty low on the list of things I look down on people for. I think it's a crutch people rely on, but the same goes for people that use sticky-notes or highlight textbooks. I admire people who do not require that crutch in their life, but I don't necessarily despise those who need it. I begin the despise religious folks when their religion gets in the way of the rest of their lives or especially in the way of my life. If you have a religion and keep to your own beliefs in a personal sort of way then I don't think you're any worse than I am with my sickening morning coffee requirements.

Say I was an atheist in England, and I wanted to promote my "cause", say by advertising on the side of a bus, what do you think the authorities would do? Allow it?

Nope.

Go look it up, because it actually happened. I think plenty of religious people judge atheists in the same way. Maybe not yourself, but many do.

Promote your cause? I heard about adverts saying something 'Sit back, relax because there's probably no God anyway'. Cant remember exactly. Anyway, they couldnt say there definitely isnt a God, they had to say probably, but they werent doing it to promote atheism; they were doing it as a comeback to some christian adverts saying something like you're going to hell for not believing! etc.


Honestly I don't think it's okay either way round, but I know when it happens to me no one gives a fuck, because I'm the theist and thus I am wrong.