Loaded-Gun.Com - Anti-Social.Com's Rejects!
General Category => Politics, Philosophy, News and/or Current Affairs => Topic started by: underclass on January 29, 2010, 09:18:52 PM
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this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm)
I've been trying to figure out why Americans are voting against fixing the biggest blight on their society.
Next up, why Japan's population will halve over the next 40 years while they vote against opening up immigration
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Psh. i could have told you all that. You didn't need to hear it from a Big Black Cock...
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I always feel like a bit of a homer when I say this shit but the beeb is pretty good compared to most of its alternatives.
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For news content, I avoid the hell out of the commercial TV networks... We get the PBS News Hour show here, and it is excellent. I had the pleasure of listening to NPR at Jenn's place in October, and found it the complete opposite of any of the commercial news radio stations I heard in the US.
Good stuff is out there, unfortunately, most people arent interested. They want car crashes and sensationalist bullshit instead of any substance.
In his book The Political Brain, psychologist Drew Westen, an exasperated Democrat, tried to show why the Right often wins the argument even when the Left is confident that it has the facts on its side.
He uses the following exchange from the first presidential debate between Al Gore and George Bush in 2000 to illustrate the perils of trying to explain to voters what will make them better off:
Gore: "Under the governor's plan, if you kept the same fee for service that you have now under Medicare, your premiums would go up by between 18% and 47%, and that is the study of the Congressional plan that he's modelled his proposal on by the Medicare actuaries."
Bush: "Look, this is a man who has great numbers. He talks about numbers.
"I'm beginning to think not only did he invent the internet, but he invented the calculator. It's fuzzy math. It's trying to scare people in the voting booth."
Mr Gore was talking sense and Mr Bush nonsense - but Mr Bush won the debate. With statistics, the voters just hear a patronising policy wonk, and switch off.
Seriously... if Americans worried a little less about their "freedoms" and their supposed infringements and thought about what might actually be best overall, things probably would never have gotten to this point. Or am I talking a whole bunch of socialist crap?
Anecdotal experience on my part: In 2005, I was asked in a bar in Florida about health care in Oz by an friend of Daves. I explained that we have Federally run basic universal health cover, it costs 1.5 cents out of every dollar earned by every person in the country. The response was "Why the hell cant we do that here?"
Thing is, you could.
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SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU COMMIE BASTARD!!!
That's why.
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You know what?
Before I say one more word, for OR against Universal Health Care, I think I'll take some time, visit some forums that host folks from countries that HAVE it, and try to find out from those peeps what it would actually be like, compared to what I've got.
I've finally hit the point that I hesitate to believe ANYTHING I read or hear as Reported News, and I honestly don't think that someone from a country that HAS UHC, and is semi-famous (ReadThat: meriting the best of treatment for fear of recriminations) is in a position to give me the bird's eye view that I'll be seeing, should it come to America.
~~ "Hello? Helpful Hospital? I'm thus-and-such-and-so-and-so with the BBC, doing an in depth report on UHC. Could you show me the ropes?"
-- "Sure enough, Mr. Reporter! We'll let you accompany Mr. Working-My-Ass-Off-To-Make-Ends-Meet as he gets sent through the system, BEGINNING with the 6 month wait for his semi-emergency situation doctor's appointment."
Not in anyone's WILDEST dreams ...
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You're deluded.
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Well we are the greatest nation on earth so we deserve a system that is better than Canada's, right?
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(http://adultstarvlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bree_olson_freaksofcock.jpg)
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I'd totallt knock boots with Bree Olsen
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~~ "Hello? Helpful Hospital? I'm thus-and-such-and-so-and-so with the BBC, doing an in depth report on UHC. Could you show me the ropes?"
-- "Sure enough, Mr. Reporter! We'll let you accompany Mr. Working-My-Ass-Off-To-Make-Ends-Meet as he gets sent through the system, BEGINNING with the 6 month wait for his semi-emergency situation doctor's appointment."
Not in anyone's WILDEST dreams ...
Yeah, you definitely dont have an opinion one way ore the other, now do you?
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The truth is, I'm afraid to hope for it, Ian.
It COULD be the best care in the world, but our gov has not exactly shown any ability to manage, well, pretty much ANYthing, without turning it into a three ring circus in which the taxpayer (ReadThat: working class person) gets screwed.
Hey, and I know I sound like a MESS, on here, but I'm not so foolish as to not understand that if I'm already falling on a certain side on an issue? I'd better have TWICE as much proof For my opinion than against my opinion, in order for my opinion to be valid,
TO MY OWN SELF.
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I'd totallt knock boots with Bree Olsen
Thanks I was trying to remember her name. Yeah sh's smokin but she fakes it and you can tell. Probably frigid.
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The truth is, I'm afraid to hope for it, Ian.
It COULD be the best care in the world, but our gov has not exactly shown any ability to manage, well, pretty much ANYthing, without turning it into a three ring circus in which the taxpayer (ReadThat: working class person) gets screwed.
Hey, and I know I sound like a MESS, on here, but I'm not so foolish as to not understand that if I'm already falling on a certain side on an issue? I'd better have TWICE as much proof For my opinion than against my opinion, in order for my opinion to be valid,
TO MY OWN SELF.
I never said it was perfect... it certainly isnt perfect here... but it covers the basics. 80/20 rule, get most of it working, work on the other stuff later
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I would expect it to be every bit as good as the HMO I had, way back when. It wasn't bad care, and I could certainly live with it, but it was only good care because there was an expectation of a certain level of care, and it was maintained by oversight. If it's the gov doing the oversight? We're fucked.
American's are pissed off at the gov, especially over the crap they're trying to slip by us, and this Health Care thing is proving to be Business As Usual for them. COSTS of the actual care, the med research, the equipment ~ NONE of that has been addressed, and until the costs for all of that come down, we simply can't afford what's being offered.
Total cost for the Blue Cross/Blue Shield coverage we now have is about $300/mo, plus we put $150/mo onto a Flex Card. Dear's company, the state of Texas, pays for part of his medical coverage, but I'm not sure how much it is.
Now, if over $300/mo, just over 11.5% of Dear's gross, isn't even paying for OUR care,
how in the HELL are we going to pay for all of the folks that don't work???
I mean, I could surely foresee a cost of 25% of our income going to Health Care,
and the QUALITY of that care falling through the floor, because it STILL isn't enough to "cover the skyrocketing costs."
Instead of forcing the people to buy insurance, why aren't we talking about forcing those costs WAY down, so that folks could just AFFORD to go to the doctor and fill a prescription?
Why does the solution ALWAYS have to be to Throw MORE Money at the problem, instead of yanking BACK some of it?
And why isn't there ANY Health Care Plan on ANY burner that would do just that, giving the people a CHOICE?
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Most western nations manage health care well enough for it not to be an issue
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Some Eastern nations do as well... like Taiwan...
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I just had to look up "Western Nations" and What a Shock:
When referring to current events, the term "Western World" often includes[citation needed] developed countries in Asia, such as Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, that have strong economic, political and military ties to Western Europe, NATO or the United States. While these countries also have substantial Western influence and similarities in their cultures, they nonetheless maintain largely different and distinctive cultures, religions (although Christianity is a major religion in South Korea), languages, customs, and worldviews that are products of their own indigenous development, rather than solely Western influences.
The bold is mine ~ So, even though they're considered Western Nations, there is some place ELSE that provides Western Influences?
See, I was going for America and Canada as being the predominant "Western Nations" ~ had a good smart-assed reply all typed up, about it being the "Honky Nations" that Nick was referring to, and how those profile-ie "names" can sometimes come in quite handy, ... <sigh>
Yeah, where Honky = english speaking, caucasian, developed -- like that.
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Nice tactic, change the topic, write some gibberish and discredit the countries that have a system that works. Someone should tell the GDP they can stop engaging in rational debate
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I was replying to Mosh's post about Taiwan being an Eastern Nation, which I would have thought, also, but according to Wiki, it is considered a Western Nation.
Are you angry with me for some reason?
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My main problem with the "health care reform" debate is that a real system where people get real benefit would be a system of UHC, where the taxpayer pays equal share as everyone, everyone is covered, businesses no longer have to bother with coverage, people are free to move from job to job and location to location without worrying about losing their coverage, etc.
What we are getting is a system where everyone is required to buy health insurance, no cost reduction incentives are baked in to the legislation, no guarantees about medical coverage are made, no competition between insurance companies is promoted, and what is left is really no benefit to anyone except someone who is unemployed or underemployed without any coverage at all.
The public overwhelmingly supports a "public option" health care plan, yet it was the first thing removed from the table in cross-party negotiations. Now Republicans are demanded the bill be debated further so they can castrate what little is left of it. Anyone who champions "health care reform" that we are getting now is delusional.
Also, the U.S. suffers dramatically from "we want this, but we want someone else to pay for it" syndrome. It permeates every aspect of our politics, budgeting at all levels of government, and popular rage among any kind of tax or levy. Our society is full of ruthless cunts who are only out for their own, and the idea of paying 1% more taxes for lifetime health care for all citizens is something that they consider to be a direct affront.
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That last bit is something I noticed as prevalent in the US. You get what you pay for, and if you dont want to pay for decent UHC, then you're gonna get exactly what you're paying for.
1.5% increase in taxes is all it takes. But seeing as you're tax systems are so convoluted, I can see how even a small increase can be seen as huge theft.
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I was replying to Mosh's post about Taiwan being an Eastern Nation, which I would have thought, also, but according to Wiki, it is considered a Western Nation.
Are you angry with me for some reason?
I don't think he is, I think he'd just be interested to see you back up your insta-fox-news-crap about government-run healthcare systems with some actual facts or somewhat thought out arguments, at least.
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People spend billions of dollar per year on the lottery, which you basically have a zero percentage chance of winning.
On the other hand, you've got a pretty solid chance of incurring a major medical expense in your lifetime.
I think Americans are generally prone to magical thinking, where we all might one day be rich and nothing bad will ever happen to us. And our politicians are so fucking corrupt that they're willing to play right along with that line of reasoning for personal profit.
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Assassinate a few... doesnt matter who, just pick a few from each side, and a couple of minor party ones as well, just to let them know they aint immune.
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Assassinate them ALL.
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Watching you argue about healthcare is like watching a debate on access to clean water where more people are concerned who wins the debate than whether they have anything to drink. That's what it comes accross to us gaijin anyway
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The only argument is from the right wing and the tea partiers, who believe every person must earn every crumb they eat, every drop they drink and every breath they take. Anything less is Socialism, pure and simple, and that is not what this country was founded upon. Never mind charity, never mind the poor, weak huddled masses, never mind the unemployment rates and the failing economy, get off your dead ass and earn a dollar and buy your own fucking health insurance you deadbeat nigger, mexican, illegal alien, welfare baby producing, foodstamp using scumbag piece of shit.
Any questions?
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That about sums it up.
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I gotta get out of this country...
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A passport would help.
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Me too.
I have a valid passport. And probably a phd in the near term. I'm sure I'll be able to convince someone to take me.
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The only argument is from the right wing and the tea partiers, who believe every person must earn every crumb they eat, every drop they drink and every breath they take. Anything less is Socialism, pure and simple, and that is not what this country was founded upon. Never mind charity, never mind the poor, weak huddled masses, never mind the unemployment rates and the failing economy, get off your dead ass and earn a dollar and buy your own fucking health insurance you deadbeat nigger, mexican, illegal alien, welfare baby producing, foodstamp using scumbag piece of shit.
Any questions?
Zoomie? I've had to be on public assistance, before, and I have NO problem with other folks that need it. It's to HELP you get back on your feet, and LOTS of folks need help every so often, but HELP isn't taking someone to raise, you know?
Also, Americans are some of the biggest givers there are, donating as much as they can and as often as they can, but NO ONE should DICTATE to us who it is that we're going to "help." I want to help, but I want to help folks that are TRYING to Better their situation, not just kicking back and living off of someone else's work.
It isn't that any of us are being "stingy" ~ it's that it's going to the wrong people for the wrong reasons, and the right folks with the right reasons are being left out in the cold, STILL WITHOUT.
That isn't fair to anyone, but THAT's what's being shoved down our throats.
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Dear Sweet Arielle,
You've been around. You know what the rest of the civilized world has. You know what this country needs. I don't give a shit what is being "force fed" in this bill, it's not what the people of this country need. You know that there are people in Congress who talk/think/act like Limbaugh and O'Reilly on Klan steroids. They've dominated legislation for years. And you know that politics in your state are unlike any other. So don't be disingenuous.
This thread isn't about health care per se; it's about the American proclivity to fight about stupid shit (in the bigger picture) rather than try something new that everyone else in the world who matters already has. And I say that because let's face it, we don't care what happens in Honduras. Or Nicaragua. Or Bangladesh. If you can't feed yourself, you're off our radar.
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People are given an arbitrary amount of money based on the status and perceived worth of their jobs, which generally doesn't really reflect the true value created by said jobs. I find any argument about what people earn or deserve extremely hard to take seriously.
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Emp I'm pretty sure that was a response to Arielle, it's hard for me to keep up sometimes. But just in case it wasn't, my entire point is that physical health and the care thereof is a basic human right most places in this world. Americans don't have it because we're more worried about our nice inexpensive gasoline and our government that stays out of our business. Allegedly.
I'd rather know that I could survive a heart attack, get a broken leg fixed or get treatment for cancer.
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and our government that stays out of our business
That worked super-well with the banks, eh.
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Yeah, it was to her. I agree, health care should be a basic human right.
Oh, wait. It is! At least according to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Too bad the US of A ignores the UN except when it's time to starve Iraqi children to death or bomb someplace.
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there are three things that america needs to agree that are basic human rights: Healthcare, housing, food, education.
We will die before all of that becomes a basic right.
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there are three things that america needs to agree that are basic human rights: Healthcare, housing, food, education.
We will die before all of that becomes a basic right.
I have two words for you: you're absolutely right.
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And I'm glad you teach music.
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Hahaha just saw that! That's what I get for posting while having a conversation.
geek fail!
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America needs to agree to a lot more than basic facts.
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Good God in Heaven! When did it become PC to espouse NOT WORKING and NOT being productive as a viable alternative "lifestyle"?!?
NO ONE OWES YOU A LIFE, folks.
No one owes you decent health care. No one owes you a home to live in. No one owes you anything.
where No One = everyone, except YOU!
YOU owe You a life,
and if you need help, it's here for the asking,
but it needs to HELP you get back up on your own two feet,
NOT put you down and keep you living like some slave to the system, a red-headed step-child that keeps trying to placate Mom & Dad while seeing the horror of the situation.
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Let me ask you this... Should the poor suffer for being born into their situation? Please do not forget, that those who are born into poverty stand less of a chance of getting out of it than those who acquire the title of poor over a period of time.
Emp - you must start basic before you ask for grand change. It is an unfortunate reality.
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Geek - this is a whole 'nother conversation but US tertiary education is far too expensive for what you get.
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Or you can just hang everyone and start over.
That's what I think is down the line for the US, after our economic decline and an ugly bout with the fascism that seems to be increasingly popular.
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I suggest starting with GHW Bush... for he begat that intellectual sloth GW.
Jesus, that guy was so dumb, they even had to dumb down his name.
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Let me ask you this... Should the poor suffer for being born into their situation? Please do not forget, that those who are born into poverty stand less of a chance of getting out of it than those who acquire the title of poor over a period of time.
Emp - you must start basic before you ask for grand change. It is an unfortunate reality.
My mom's family was fucking POOR ~ to the point that my mom was given away to be raised by a rich lady until the family could afford to have her back. (She was sickly, at first, probably due to being born into abject poverty.)
EVERY ONE of the four children got out and STROKED it, and made lives for themselves, and THAT was part of the beauty of America! And before you sneer about us being poor WHITE-Y's, let me tell you that the family name was Lopez, changed to Locke, in order to HIDE the fact that they were hispanic, 'cuz in San Antonio back in the '30's & 40's? There weren't any jobs for mexicans.
THOSE are the folks y'all are expecting to support the "needy." Those folks didn't have anything when they were born, and now that they've gotten out and worked themselves into some sort of "ease," you'd take away their little "extra?" If they could afford to, they'd like to "give" to THEIR families, THEIR needy peeps. Something their folks could never do for them.
And I'm hard-hearted? Yeah.
You don't want folks born into poverty? PREACH some Birth Control to the poor. FORCE the issue, by making RULES regarding how many children someone that is too sick/uneducated/whatever to work is allowed to HAVE ~ have more than 1, with no job, no future? They're going up for adoption to families that can afford them. Have FOUR or more that the state has to pay for the delivery of? Automatic sterilization.
YOU, all of you fucking bleeding heart fools, have resigned MILLIONS of children to Crack 'Hos and whatever abuse can be ladled up upon them by their parents, who don't give a shit about them, just the extra food stamps and assistance monies.
I'm disgusted with all of y'all. You know the system. You know it doesn't work. You KNOW all of the horror stories, and you STILL want to Fight For The RIGHTs of the wrongs.
Think about it. If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there? In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.
Shit. I need a divorce. On my own, I'm eligible for EVERYTHING in the way of Freebie Assistance. Why am I being so mean to Dear, and making HIM have to try to afford me, all on his own? Hell, I'd be willing to BET I could have me some FURNITURE and maybe even a real TV, instead of living in an empty house.
But here's the thing: Nothing is Free. Nothing. Sooner or later, SOMEONE has to pay for whatever it is.
Sorry about this ~ I'm on a tear and have gotten Off Topic. <sigh> But it could be worse. I could be DRUNK and off on a tear.
Speaking of the which...
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Or you can just hang everyone and start over.
YES!!!!!!!!! We need a purge of Stalin-like proportion. A revolution to rival the killing fields of Cambodia. We need to round up all the politicians, all the self-appointed leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, all the loud-mouths like Saxby Chambliss, the extremists like anyone with a nazi tattoo on their forehead, the media moguls from Dr John who can't get the weather forecast right to that Dried up Aussie prune, ALL OF THEM SWINGING BY THEIR NECKS!!!
I think I just came in my pants...
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You leave Dr John out of this. Hasn't New Orleans suffered enough?
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Think about it. If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there? In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.
That is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Not everyone can work, nor can work at the same level, value wise. In societies that function very well (Scandanavian societies come to mind), they all have UHC, and strong social welfare systems.
And that's the point, public welfare UNDERPINS stable societies. Societies that have minimal or no social welfare systems DO NOT WORK.
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Ian? This isn't me being ugly, but do you have any proofs of what you're saying?
It also doesn't really matter to me if you do, or don't ~ that is something you believe to be true, and I'm willing to believe it, too, if for no other reason than that I WANT it to be true.
But I was just thinking about references, in relation to the question of UHC. I just read something that stated that America has one of the BEST Health Care Systems in operation, ALREADY, and I was wondering what that person had based their opinion on.
As an aside, I used to have a good friend that lives in Sweden, AirSoft something or other, that I used to play in a game group with that I wish I still had access to, just to ask some questions about their society. I already asked him a MILLION questions, {Mostly about his dick, which, if I believe him? Is HUGE!}, but seem to have missed that one.
Do any of y'all know some folks from Sweden that we could talk/type with about this?
"Hello? Classifieds for Beerville, TX? I'd like to place an ad. 'Wanted for Questioning: Swedish Person(s). No pay, long hours. Apply WithIn.'
OMG!!! Y'all and the Nigger thang. Guess what the newspaper in Beeville is called? The Beeville Picayune!!! ROFLMFAO!!!
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As far as I'm aware, those countries like Sweden, with all their evil social welfare, have very high standards of living, very low crime rates, and high levels of longevity. It's easy to find information about this, hell I use Wikipedia, and read the annotation links, because Wikipedia by itself is at best unreliable.
The US has a fantastic health care system, IF YOU CAN AFFORD ACCESS TO IT. Lots of folks cant, millions of them in fact. Sewden has a fantastic health care system, which EVERYONE has access to. That's the difference.
Lets have a look at a place like Afghanistan, or any number of African nations. No social welfare systems, huge social disorder problems. (Yes I do understand that they have no money, and long historys of strife, but so did Europe until relatively recently. Wealth in Europe didnt really start to be more evenly distributed until the Industrial Revolution, and even then it took forever).
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Ian, we SAY that, and we THINK that, but, cripes!
WHO doesn't get to go to the doctor???
Folks with Medicaid get to go.
Folks with insurance get to go.
The ONLY folks that DON't have free access are the one's working for companies that won't fork up for the welfare of their very BACKBONE, their Workers!
That's not a prob with the peeps, that's a prob with shitty, cheap-assed companies that don't value their human assets.
NO hospital can refuse to care for me here in the US, regardless of my ability to pay them. It WILL go on my credit report, if I never even try to pay them, but even if I have to go BACK, they won't refuse to care for me.
THAT's how American's are. THAT's how strongly we feel about wanting EVERYONE to have access, IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
It's there. It's to be "had." That's part of our problem with illegal immigrants ~ they know it's there, and that NO ONE will refuse them, and it's been ABUSED.
Folks with kids that have ear infections need to see a doctor in his office, NOT call 911 and have the child rushed to the emergency room just 'cuz it was inconvenient to make a doctor's appointment that would have cost $5 - $10, AND the cost of fuel to get there. This is no lie: I have MET women, milling around the ER, waiting to have their child be seen, that bitched about THOSE costs, and weren't going to put up with that type of treatment from anyone. Expecting them to make time in their busy schedule to take the kid to the doc? Preposterous! Thinking that they could/would fork up the MINIMAL amount of bux for their care? UNTHINKABLE! 911 and the ER are FREE ~
we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.
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I'd totallt knock boots with Bree Olsen
Thanks I was trying to remember her name. Yeah sh's smokin but she fakes it and you can tell. Probably frigid.
She does anal, so, I couldn't care less if she fakes it or not ...
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THAT was the "beauty" of insurance, you know?
Even if YOU were incapacitated, there were others in your family that DID pay in,
and they helped you with the office visit expenses, and maybe a scrip or two.
We KNEW who we were paying for ~ and they were thankful and treated our help with respect, trying NOT to cost us every flippin' penny we had left over.
That isn't the case, now. We have no idea who our dollars are helping. We can look around and see way too many abusers of the system, and not nearly enough folks that truly need our help. All we know about these, for lack of a better word, SUCKERS is that no one gives a SHIT about them, not their families, not their lovers, NO ONE. They're fucked up people that no one wants anything to do with.
Here's a Wender Rule: If you wouldn't let them into your house? To LIVE with you, until they could get back on their feet?
They don't deserve one red cent of your hard-earned money. Your kind thoughts toward them? Yes. But not your blood, sweat nor tears.
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Shut up Dave, seriously.
we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.
OK Arielle, look at it this way: If we all have to pay $2000 for some jerkass to get that treatment, why don't we make it so we all only have to pay $200 for that treatment. That dumb bitch won't have to be a dumb bitch anymore and her kid will get seen without all the stress.
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Shut up Dave, seriously.
WTF did I do?
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Shut up Dave, seriously.
we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.
OK Arielle, look at it this way: If we all have to pay $2000 for some jerkass to get that treatment, why don't we make it so we all only have to pay $200 for that treatment. That dumb bitch won't have to be a dumb bitch anymore and her kid will get seen without all the stress.
Aaron? They aren't "dumb bitches."
Dear's little sister? Has 6 kids, from 4 different fathers, some of whom will just have to remain nameless 'cuz she really doesn't remember/know.
That's fucking sad.
She needs help. The kids need help. And if MY "rule" had been in place? She'd have ONE child to concern herself with ~ the other's would be with families that could afford them, that WANTED them, and that would VALUE them.
Where they are? Es no bueno por nada.
We help. But we can't do what a loving, RESPONSIBLE mother and father could do.
Those children have been hurt.
And for myself? I would never have wished that on them, and if I'd had a chance to change things up? I would have.
And, YES. The beginning costs MUST be addressed, if any change is going to be made.
(I haven't actually read this anywhere, yet? But we all will be able to read about it, soon.)
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Think about it. If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there? In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.
Tell this to overworked and underpaid teachers who make around 27K to start, are in 100 K debt from their education (and only getting worse, since teachers are forced by state to constantly continue their education, at the cost of the teacher) and with no dental, eye, and very poor health care that does not cover jack shit.
Tell this to overworked and underpaid city police and firefighters who make even less than a teacher to start, in debt from the academy, and the city shit healthcare does not cover the hazards that happen to them at their jobs. Oh and then ask them how their promised 2% raise per year is helping... considering that the cost of living raises by 3% every year.
Some jobs do not pay enough to live. Sure, i can go to the hospital, get emergency care, but not the medications I need, and fuck up my credit all I want - but then I cant get a car to get to work, or a house to live in.
Some people are disabled and unable to work.
Some can't get jobs because they are too old, or their job was just outsourced to India.
Did you consider that in your utopia?
As for your story about your mother being poor... I want to point out:
EVERY ONE of the four children got out and STROKED it, and made lives for themselves, and THAT was part of the beauty of America!
Yes, that certainly WAS the BEAUTY of america, a post war america that gave bonds, subsidized land on old farms turned suburban communities, of free trade, a stable economy, a workforce at home... Seriously. You can not compare that era with today. 1950s
My point is that no one should have to STRUGGLE. It is unfair and it is wrong.
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And that's what my point about social welfare is all about... protecting to a certain degree the weakest in society.
Lets say I earned a million dollars a year. 1.5% of that is $15k. That $15k goes into a huge pot, so someone who earns $30K a year (and contributes $450 a year) doesnt have to mortgage their future if they break a leg.
If I broke a leg (while on my million dollar salary), I could feel confident that I could be taken to a public hospital, and get my leg set, get whatever meds I need, and not need to worry about it. Some of you might think that's a scam because I'm rich enough to pay for my own treatment out of my own pocket, but remember, I'm contributing $15K a year into the scheme.
America has a long history of public philanthropy by very wealthy individuals, with noble goals and all that, but you cant rely on the kindness of strangers in the event of illness, and if you are ill, you cant rely on yourself either. Either you draw on insurance, if you could afford it in the first place, or hope that somehow whatever treatment you require is given. Having your credit wrecked because you couldnt pay the hospital is a penalty for getting sick, and bullshit if you ask me.
If you think that's wrong, that's fine... but millions of people in every other developed nation know better.
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If you think that's wrong, that's fine... but millions of people in every other developed nation know better.
Precisely. But you fuckheads better not be telling us how to live in the greatest nation on earth, God Bless The USA we got nukular weapons!!!!
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God forbid we should do that, eh?
God Bless The USA we got nukular weapons!!!!
So does England, France... places that either have decent social welfare systems.
Then again so does Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Israel... places not noted for social compassion.
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Yeah but we ain't lettin' NOBODY tell us what to do! Fuck them poor negroes. Commerce, commerce COMMERCE!!!!
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We have thriving economies down under too
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You mean South Afrika?
I guess.
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And that's what my point about social welfare is all about... protecting to a certain degree the weakest in society.
Lets say I earned a million dollars a year. 1.5% of that is $15k. That $15k goes into a huge pot, so someone who earns $30K a year (and contributes $450 a year) doesnt have to mortgage their future if they break a leg.
If I broke a leg (while on my million dollar salary), I could feel confident that I could be taken to a public hospital, and get my leg set, get whatever meds I need, and not need to worry about it. Some of you might think that's a scam because I'm rich enough to pay for my own treatment out of my own pocket, but remember, I'm contributing $15K a year into the scheme.
America has a long history of public philanthropy by very wealthy individuals, with noble goals and all that, but you cant rely on the kindness of strangers in the event of illness, and if you are ill, you cant rely on yourself either. Either you draw on insurance, if you could afford it in the first place, or hope that somehow whatever treatment you require is given. Having your credit wrecked because you couldnt pay the hospital is a penalty for getting sick, and bullshit if you ask me.
If you think that's wrong, that's fine... but millions of people in every other developed nation know better.
I cannot understand why this isn't just common sense to everyone.
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"We find these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal by virtue of their ability to earn, that they are endowed by their Employer with certain inalienable rights, that among these are the ability to pay their own way or starve and freeze in the street or die painfully from a minor and preventable medical condition..."
According to Wikipedia that has been called one of the "best-known sentences in the English language" and "the most potent and consequential words in American history" and I just fixed it.
You're welcome.
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The only thing missing from the end of the Declaration of Independence is "Bazinga"...
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Think about it. If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there? In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.
Tell this to overworked and underpaid teachers who make around 27K to start, are in 100 K debt from their education (and only getting worse, since teachers are forced by state to constantly continue their education, at the cost of the teacher) and with no dental, eye, and very poor health care that does not cover jack shit.
Tell this to overworked and underpaid city police and firefighters who make even less than a teacher to start, in debt from the academy, and the city shit healthcare does not cover the hazards that happen to them at their jobs. Oh and then ask them how their promised 2% raise per year is helping... considering that the cost of living raises by 3% every year.
Some jobs do not pay enough to live. Sure, i can go to the hospital, get emergency care, but not the medications I need, and fuck up my credit all I want - but then I cant get a car to get to work, or a house to live in.
Some people are disabled and unable to work.
Some can't get jobs because they are too old, or their job was just outsoou've said is true of our teachers, here.
Okay. Now, I'll read the rest of your post! lolurced to India.
Did you consider that in your utopia?
As for your story about your mother being poor... I want to point out:
sis-in-law is a teacher, right here in Texas. NONE of what y
EVERY ONE of the four children got out and STROKED it, and made lives for themselves, and THAT was part of the beauty of America!
Yes, that certainly WAS the BEAUTY of america, a post war america that gave bonds, subsidized land on old farms turned suburban communities, of free trade, a stable economy, a workforce at home... Seriously. You can not compare that era with today. 1950s
My point is that no one should have to STRUGGLE. It is unfair and it is wrong.
WHOA! My sis in law is FUCK!!!
I'm on IE, and when you go past the end of the post window?
THE FUCKING THANG JUST JUMPS AROUND, all over the place.
The rest of my post is cleverly hidden iSOMEWHERE in here...
Good luck
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I would like to thank the BBC for this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualrevolution (http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualrevolution)
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THANK YUO SHEEPRAPE!
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the sheep never said no.
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Baaaa means Baaaa
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beans means heinz
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For Mash Get Smash
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Oh I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Weiner...