Loaded-Gun.Com - Anti-Social.Com's Rejects!
General Category => Politics, Philosophy, News and/or Current Affairs => Topic started by: tricky on May 15, 2009, 03:31:09 PM
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What do you think of this?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_he_me/us_med_forced_chemo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_he_me/us_med_forced_chemo)
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I say fuck the retarded parents.
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Literally? Ok!
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Religious assholes. They should have their children taken away and raised by wolves. They'd have a better chance.
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separation of church and state. legally requiring something that goes against the religious belief of a person (or juvenile) is fundamentally wrong under the bill of rights, as far as I'm concerned.
he'll still die from his cancer, but I don't think it's the job of the state to try to save him.
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Lucas. Please quote me the text from the Bill Of Rights where it specifically states "Separation Of Church And State". Then please quote me the chapter from the US Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, Lincoln's Pennsylvania Address or the charter of the League of Women Voters that uses the phrase "Separation Of Church And State".
You can't. It doesn't exist.
What you will find is the First Amendment To The Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The purpose of this amendment was to prevent the US or any individual state from establishing an official state-sanctioned religion and then persecuting those in their jurisdiction who were not members of said religion. You know, the reason we left Europe and came to North America in the first place? Perhaps you should take an hour out of your very, very busy day and try reading the constitution. Then I wouldn't have to take time out of my very, very busy day and correct you.
"Separation of Church and State" was coined during the Scopes trials by fundamentalist Christians to get public schools to stop teaching evolution, and failed in the SCOTUS. It gets bandied about by whatever group feels they can best use it to their advantage, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with STUPID PARENTS LETTING THEIR 13 YEAR OLD SON DIE OF CANCER, DUMBASS.
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State sanctioned eugenics should be revisited.
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Canada has that covered.
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Canada has heaps of good ideas.
Cheap prescription drugs, Bachman Turner Overdrive, eugenics... what a country!
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If that kid tried to go over the border to Canada though he would probably get detained, because he'd look like a junkie.
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I am glad the court intervened.
he'll still die from his cancer, but I don't think it's the job of the state to try to save him.
My friend had Hodgkin's lymphoma, 14 when diagnosed I think. He started Chemo in the summer of 07 and it worked first time round. He even has his hair back now. The point is he has a 90% survival chance with chemo, and from what I was told it's a very slow acting cancer so if it doesn't work the first time then you have the time to go back and do chemo again until you have killed the cancer off.
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I have several friends with non-Hodgkin's and other forms. Surprise, living this close to Baltimore with all the hexavalent and other shit they just dumped on the ground for decades, and the unlined landfills at Ft Meade right over the aquifer, filled with mercury and benzene and allegedly deactivated chemical weapons...
And I think to myself... what a wonderful world...
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You and me both! I live downwind of the sunoco plant that keeps burning off toxic gases, and some strange plant that no one is entirely sure what they make... but it smells
and why does it smell like pasta near the airport but there's no pasta to be found?
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Aloe smells like rancid spaghetti sauce. My dog's breath smells like dog food.
And I agree with Emp. My ex had and beat Hodgkins with chemo. It's very fixable.
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Doctors also allow patients to die by chemo. Patient wants another treatment despite there being no chance. The doctors know what kind of death that is, but they still do it.
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The purpose of this amendment was to prevent the US or any individual state from establishing an official state-sanctioned religion and then persecuting those in their jurisdiction who were not members of said religion. You know, the reason we left Europe and came to North America in the first place?
And then people were accused of being witches and burned at the stake and drowned. Freedom of religion indeed.
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But hey, it put Salem on the map!
And it's been the source of lots of jokes about my mum being a witch over the years.
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i can't imagine not trying to do everything humanly possible to save my child regardless of my "beliefs".
if my daughter were ill, i would go above and beyond all human measures to try and help her.
do i think a judge can order this? no, but i see his point.
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The purpose of this amendment was to...
The purpose of my post was to intentionally provoke you. :)
Oh, that was joyous to read, coming back from a long weekend away!
edit: well, not YOU specifically, but someone that would hop on the "government knows better than me!" bandwagon! of course, zoomie, i didn't expect it to be you.
RON PAUL 2012!
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For me, it's less a government issue and more a science > religion issue.
On the list of government actions that bother me, a judge telling a family to take their superstitions and fuck themselves (when it comes to taking care of their kid's treatable illness) falls pretty low on the list.
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i think those parents are assholes who have better options than the ones they are using as far as trying to save their kid. however, it annoys me and even pisses me off that a judge is telling someone what medical decisions to make.
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RON PAUL 2012!
Believe!
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fuck Ron Paul.
Someone dust off David Duke....
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Fuck David Duke. Get me John Wayne !
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On the list of government actions that bother me, a judge telling a family to take their superstitions and fuck themselves (when it comes to taking care of their kid's treatable illness) falls pretty low on the list.
How far up the list will you let them go, before you get indignant about government involvement in your life?
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I think people gave me homo points for stating my opinion is this thread. NAZIS, THE LOT OF YA!
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i think those parents are assholes who have better options than the ones they are using as far as trying to save their kid. however, it annoys me and even pisses me off that a judge is telling someone what medical decisions to make.
See usually it would annoy me but 90% and 5%?! I'm glad they intervened.
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i think those parents are assholes who have better options than the ones they are using as far as trying to save their kid. however, it annoys me and even pisses me off that a judge is telling someone what medical decisions to make.
You can't legally smoke weed, snort coke, shoot smack, drink before you're 21 years old, or kill yourself. The government controls or prohibits all sorts of things that could be described as medical decisions.
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I do think that some drugs should be regulated as they are. I think weed should be legalized, I don't know about coke enough to form an opinion on it. IMO suicide shouldn't be illegal. The government regulates too many things that they shouldn't as it is, this case is one more thing that I don't think they should stick their nose in.
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I can see your point, but mine was really just that if society has been OK with the gov't banning the things they do for "medical purposes", then this ought not to be viewed as anything worse. If anything, the fact that they're saving a life that would otherwise be lost for ridiculous reasons makes this a lot better, in my opinion.
But then in my opinion religion can go fuck itself.
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I can see your point, but mine was really just that if society has been OK with the gov't banning the things they do for "medical purposes", then this ought not to be viewed as anything worse. If anything, the fact that they're saving a life that would otherwise be lost for ridiculous reasons makes this a lot better, in my opinion.
But then in my opinion religion can go fuck itself.
I'm theist and I agree with you. I'd imagine a lot of pro-lifers would have to agree too.
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On the list of government actions that bother me, a judge telling a family to take their superstitions and fuck themselves (when it comes to taking care of their kid's treatable illness) falls pretty low on the list.
How far up the list will you let them go, before you get indignant about government involvement in your life?
I'm already pretty indignant about government's involvement in my life.
They already do tons of the things that are higher on the list, though. If you want to talk about the war on drugs, the Fed, or a hundred other things you would get a different response.
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If anything, the fact that they're saving a life that would otherwise be lost for ridiculous reasons makes this a lot better, in my opinion.
Scientific: They've not actually saved a life, but presented an opportunity to have a life saved.
Political: The government as a whole has done nothing per se, only the individual actor represented by the judge.
Judicial: Can't this decision be appealled by the parents?
Emotional: I can't get excited about one life potentially "saved" when so many other lives are lost each day due to equally ridiculous reasons... without government involvement.
Gunial: Fuck that, let's make his time of death a national lottery, and televise his decline opposite American Idol!
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They already do tons of the things that are higher on the list, though. If you want to talk about the war on drugs, the Fed, or a hundred other things you would get a different response.
Give an inch, take a mile.
Oh, and time to start force-feeding the vegans some red meat and giving alcoholics some wine (or beer!) with their meals. It's good for them!
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They already do tons of the things that are higher on the list, though. If you want to talk about the war on drugs, the Fed, or a hundred other things you would get a different response.
Give an inch, take a mile.
Oh, and time to start force-feeding the vegans some red meat and giving alcoholics some wine (or beer!) with their meals. It's good for them!
Alternatively, they've already taken the mile, so who gives a shit about the last inch?
Editted to add:
There is a pretty big difference in how the law treats a minor versus an adult. The court case has more in common with a parent not providing proper nutrition for a child than it does forcing alcohol on an alcoholic or meat on a vegan.
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How about if the kid is vegan, and refuses to drink milk or eat meat in public school?
edit: I dated a girl that was vegan since she was 10; it was her decision because of how she felt about the exploitation of animals. It caused a regular fuss, she told me. But this was before the internet, so it didn't become a national talking point.
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I haven't read all this right through, but I don't see any difference between this and JW's refusing a blood transfusion
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How about if the kid is vegan, and refuses to drink milk or eat meat in public school?
edit: I dated a girl that was vegan since she was 10; it was her decision because of how she felt about the exploitation of animals. It caused a regular fuss, she told me. But this was before the internet, so it didn't become a national talking point.
I think that if the court case was over a school administrator telling someone that they had to drink their milk or eat a certain thing, the schools would lose.
If the kid wasn't eating a proper vegan diet and it was more of an eating disorder/nutrition issue, they might be able to make a case in court. I don't think they'd be able to make a case on scientific issues to force the consumption of meat/dairy, though, like they were in this case. Any victory on the part of the state would be due to the judge's prejudices about dietary choices and therefore wrong.
I also don't think it's an issue that the jduicial system would be keen to take on, because litigating nutrition would get really ugly really fast in the US considering the garbage that US companies sell.
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Any victory on the part of the state would be due to the judge's prejudices about dietary choices and therefore wrong.
So, you don't think the judge's prejudices about religious choices are coming into play here?
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Oh, and time to start force-feeding the vegans some red meat and giving alcoholics some wine (or beer!) with their meals. It's good for them!
Many people would argue that giving alcoholics wine/beer is not good for them...
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Is his prejudice playing a role? Potentially.
Is there a very powerful argument based on the efficacy of treatment options that can be made? Yes.
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You guys aren't being nasty to each other. :( I was hoping for a full on flame war from that article.
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FTK !
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Oh, and time to start force-feeding the vegans some red meat and giving alcoholics some wine (or beer!) with their meals. It's good for them!
Many people would argue that giving alcoholics wine/beer is not good for them...
Not this alcoholic!
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The purpose of my post was to intentionally provoke you. :)
Oh, that was joyous to read, coming back from a long weekend away!
edit: well, not YOU specifically, but someone that would hop on the "government knows better than me!" bandwagon! of course, zoomie, i didn't expect it to be you.
Don't fuck with my constitution. Not even in jest. Regardless of how it's been perverted it was written with the best of intentions.
Ok, back to work. See ya.
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Don't fuck with my constitution.
C may fall in love with you from that statement alone.
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UPDATEZ
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo)
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UPDATEZ
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo)
That's a pretty dumb move on her part. What's she going to do, go into hiding until the kid dies? The father, even though he's a religious nut, at least had the right idea about appealing through the courts.
I bet the state will charge her with a boatload of felonies if she hides out and the kid dies.
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Spiderbait - Run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhAdpMMyp0g#noexternalembed-lq-lq2-hq)