A passport would help.

Me too.

I have a valid passport.  And probably a phd in the near term.  I'm sure I'll be able to convince someone to take me.

The only argument is from the right wing and the tea partiers,  who believe every person must earn every crumb they eat, every drop they drink and every breath they take. Anything less is Socialism, pure and simple, and that is not what this country was founded upon. Never mind charity, never mind the poor, weak huddled masses, never mind the unemployment rates and the failing economy, get off your dead ass and earn a dollar and buy your own fucking health insurance you deadbeat nigger, mexican, illegal alien, welfare baby producing, foodstamp using scumbag piece of shit.

Any questions?

Zoomie?  I've had to be on public assistance, before, and I have NO problem with other folks that need it.  It's to HELP you get back on your feet, and LOTS of folks need help every so often, but HELP isn't taking someone to raise, you know?

Also, Americans are some of the biggest givers there are, donating as much as they can and as often as they can, but NO ONE should DICTATE to us who it is that we're going to "help."  I want to help, but I want to help folks that are TRYING to Better their situation, not just kicking back and living off of someone else's work.

It isn't that any of us are being "stingy" ~ it's that it's going to the wrong people for the wrong reasons, and the right folks with the right reasons are being left out in the cold, STILL WITHOUT.

That isn't fair to anyone, but THAT's what's being shoved down our throats.

Dear Sweet Arielle,

You've been around. You know what the rest of the civilized world has. You know what this country needs. I don't give a shit what is being "force fed" in this bill, it's not what the people of this country need. You know that there are people in Congress who talk/think/act like Limbaugh and O'Reilly on Klan steroids. They've dominated legislation for years. And you know that politics in your state are unlike any other. So don't be disingenuous.

This thread isn't about health care per se; it's about the American proclivity to fight about stupid shit (in the bigger picture) rather than try something new that everyone else in the world who matters already has. And I say that because let's face it, we don't care what happens in Honduras. Or Nicaragua. Or Bangladesh.  If you can't feed yourself, you're off our radar.

People are given an arbitrary amount of money based on the status and perceived worth of their jobs, which generally doesn't really reflect the true value created by said jobs.  I find any argument about what people earn or deserve extremely hard to take seriously.

Emp I'm pretty sure that was a response to Arielle, it's hard for me to keep up sometimes. But just in case it wasn't, my entire point is that physical health and the care thereof is a basic human right most places in this world. Americans don't have it because we're more worried about our nice inexpensive gasoline and our government that stays out of our business. Allegedly.

I'd rather know that I could survive a heart attack, get a broken leg fixed or get treatment for cancer.

and our government that stays out of our business

That worked super-well with the banks, eh.

Yeah, it was to her.  I agree, health care should be a basic human right.

Oh, wait.  It is!  At least according to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  Too bad the US of A ignores the UN except when it's time to starve Iraqi children to death or bomb someplace.

there are three things that america needs to agree that are basic human rights: Healthcare, housing, food, education.

We will die before all of that becomes a basic right.

there are three things that america needs to agree that are basic human rights: Healthcare, housing, food, education.

We will die before all of that becomes a basic right.

I have two words for you: you're absolutely right.

And I'm glad you teach music.

Hahaha just saw that! That's what I get for posting while having a conversation.
geek fail!

America needs to agree to a lot more than basic facts.

Good God in Heaven!  When did it become PC to espouse NOT WORKING and NOT being productive as a viable alternative "lifestyle"?!?

NO ONE OWES YOU A LIFE, folks.

No one owes you decent health care.  No one owes you a home to live in.  No one owes you anything.

where No One = everyone, except YOU!

YOU owe You a life,

and if you need help, it's here for the asking,

but it needs to HELP you get back up on your own two feet,

NOT put you down and keep you living like some slave to the system, a red-headed step-child that keeps trying to placate Mom & Dad while seeing the horror of the situation.

Let me ask you this... Should the poor suffer for being born into their situation? Please do not forget, that those who are born into poverty stand less of a chance of getting out of it than those who acquire the title of poor over a period of time.


Emp - you must start basic before you ask for grand change. It is an unfortunate reality.

Geek - this is a whole 'nother conversation but US tertiary education is far too expensive for what you get.

Or you can just hang everyone and start over.

That's what I think is down the line for the US, after our economic decline and an ugly bout with the fascism that seems to be increasingly popular.

I suggest starting with GHW Bush... for he begat that intellectual sloth GW.

Jesus, that guy was so dumb, they even had to dumb down his name.

Let me ask you this... Should the poor suffer for being born into their situation? Please do not forget, that those who are born into poverty stand less of a chance of getting out of it than those who acquire the title of poor over a period of time.


Emp - you must start basic before you ask for grand change. It is an unfortunate reality.

My mom's family was fucking POOR ~ to the point that my mom was given away to be raised by a rich lady until the family could afford to have her back.  (She was sickly, at first, probably due to being born into abject poverty.)

EVERY ONE of the four children got out and STROKED it, and made lives for themselves, and THAT was part of the beauty of America!  And before you sneer about us being poor WHITE-Y's, let me tell you that the family name was Lopez, changed to Locke, in order to HIDE the fact that they were hispanic, 'cuz in San Antonio back in the '30's & 40's?  There weren't any jobs for mexicans.

THOSE are the folks y'all are expecting to support the "needy."  Those folks didn't have anything when they were born, and now that they've gotten out and worked themselves into some sort of "ease," you'd take away their little "extra?"  If they could afford to, they'd like to "give" to THEIR families, THEIR needy peeps.  Something their folks could never do for them.

And I'm hard-hearted?  Yeah.

You don't want folks born into poverty?  PREACH some Birth Control to the poor.  FORCE the issue, by making RULES regarding how many children someone that is too sick/uneducated/whatever to work is allowed to HAVE ~ have more than 1, with no job, no future?  They're going up for adoption to families that can afford them.  Have FOUR or more that the state has to pay for the delivery of?  Automatic sterilization.

YOU, all of you fucking bleeding heart fools, have resigned MILLIONS of children to Crack 'Hos and whatever abuse can be ladled up upon them by their parents, who don't give a shit about them, just the extra food stamps and assistance monies.

I'm disgusted with all of y'all.  You know the system.  You know it doesn't work.  You KNOW all of the horror stories, and you STILL want to Fight For The RIGHTs of the wrongs.

Think about it.  If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there?  In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.

Shit.  I need a divorce.  On my own, I'm eligible for EVERYTHING in the way of Freebie Assistance.  Why am I being so mean to Dear, and making HIM have to try to afford me, all on his own?  Hell, I'd be willing to BET I could have me some FURNITURE and maybe even a real TV, instead of living in an empty house.

But here's the thing:  Nothing is Free.  Nothing.  Sooner or later, SOMEONE has to pay for whatever it is.



Sorry about this ~ I'm on a tear and have gotten Off Topic.  <sigh>  But it could be worse.  I could be DRUNK and off on a tear.

Speaking of the which...

Or you can just hang everyone and start over.

YES!!!!!!!!! We need a purge of Stalin-like proportion. A revolution to rival the killing fields of Cambodia. We need to round up all the politicians, all the self-appointed leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, all the loud-mouths like Saxby Chambliss, the extremists like anyone with a nazi tattoo on their forehead, the media moguls from Dr John who can't get the weather forecast right to that Dried up Aussie prune, ALL OF THEM SWINGING BY THEIR NECKS!!!

I think I just came in my pants...

You leave Dr John out of this. Hasn't New Orleans suffered enough?

Think about it.  If everyone that COULD work, DID work, there wouldn't be a need for UHC, NOR public assistance, would there?  In ANY well functioning society, there's NO NEED for it, and the fact that you're so concerned about it just goes to show that our society is melting down to it's lowest common denominator.

That is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Not everyone can work, nor can work at the same level, value wise. In societies that function very well (Scandanavian societies come to mind), they all have UHC, and strong social welfare systems.

And that's the point, public welfare UNDERPINS stable societies. Societies that have minimal or no social welfare systems DO NOT WORK.

Ian?  This isn't me being ugly, but do you have any proofs of what you're saying?

It also doesn't really matter to me if you do, or don't ~ that is something you believe to be true, and I'm willing to believe it, too, if for no other reason than that I WANT it to be true.

But I was just thinking about references, in relation to the question of UHC.  I just read something that stated that America has one of the BEST Health Care Systems in operation, ALREADY, and I was wondering what that person had based their opinion on.

As an aside, I used to have a good friend that lives in Sweden, AirSoft something or other, that I used to play in a game group with that I wish I still had access to, just to ask some questions about their society.  I already asked him a MILLION questions, {Mostly about his dick, which, if I believe him?  Is HUGE!}, but seem to have missed that one.

Do any of y'all know some folks from Sweden that we could talk/type with about this?


"Hello?  Classifieds for Beerville, TX?  I'd like to place an ad.  'Wanted for Questioning: Swedish Person(s).  No pay, long hours.  Apply WithIn.'

OMG!!!  Y'all and the Nigger thang.  Guess what the newspaper in Beeville is called?  The Beeville Picayune!!!  ROFLMFAO!!!

As far as I'm aware, those countries like Sweden, with all their evil social welfare, have very high standards of living, very low crime rates, and high levels of longevity. It's easy to find information about this, hell I use Wikipedia, and read the annotation links, because Wikipedia by itself is at best unreliable.

The US has a fantastic health care system, IF YOU CAN AFFORD ACCESS TO IT. Lots of folks cant, millions of them in fact. Sewden has a fantastic health care system, which EVERYONE has access to. That's the difference.

Lets have a look at a place like Afghanistan, or any number of African nations. No social welfare systems, huge social disorder problems. (Yes I do understand that they have no money, and long historys of strife, but so did Europe until relatively recently. Wealth in Europe didnt really start to be more evenly distributed until the Industrial Revolution, and even then it took forever).

Ian, we SAY that, and we THINK that, but, cripes!

WHO doesn't get to go to the doctor???

Folks with Medicaid get to go.

Folks with insurance get to go.

The ONLY folks that DON't have free access are the one's working for companies that won't fork up for the welfare of their very BACKBONE, their Workers!

That's not a prob with the peeps, that's a prob with shitty, cheap-assed companies that don't value their human assets.

NO hospital can refuse to care for me here in the US, regardless of my ability to pay them.  It WILL go on my credit report, if I never even try to pay them, but even if I have to go BACK, they won't refuse to care for me.

THAT's how American's are.  THAT's how strongly we feel about wanting EVERYONE to have access, IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.

It's there.  It's to be "had."  That's part of our problem with illegal immigrants ~ they know it's there, and that NO ONE will refuse them, and it's been ABUSED.

Folks with kids that have ear infections need to see a doctor in his office, NOT call 911 and have the child rushed to the emergency room just 'cuz it was inconvenient to make a doctor's appointment that would have cost $5 - $10, AND the cost of fuel to get there.  This is no lie:  I have MET women, milling around the ER, waiting to have their child be seen, that bitched about THOSE costs, and weren't going to put up with that type of treatment from anyone.  Expecting them to make time in their busy schedule to take the kid to the doc?  Preposterous!  Thinking that they could/would fork up the MINIMAL amount of bux for their care?  UNTHINKABLE!  911 and the ER are FREE ~

we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.

I'd totallt knock boots with Bree Olsen

Thanks I was trying to remember her name. Yeah sh's smokin but she fakes it and you can tell. Probably frigid.

She does anal, so, I couldn't care less if she fakes it or not ...

THAT was the "beauty" of insurance, you know?

Even if YOU were incapacitated, there were others in your family that DID pay in,

and they helped you with the office visit expenses, and maybe a scrip or two.

We KNEW who we were paying for ~ and they were thankful and treated our help with respect, trying NOT to cost us every flippin' penny we had left over.

That isn't the case, now.  We have no idea who our dollars are helping.  We can look around and see way too many abusers of the system, and not nearly enough folks that truly need our help.  All we know about these, for lack of a better word, SUCKERS is that no one gives a SHIT about them, not their families, not their lovers, NO ONE.  They're fucked up people that no one wants anything to do with.

Here's a Wender Rule:  If you wouldn't let them into your house?  To LIVE with you, until they could get back on their feet?

They don't deserve one red cent of your hard-earned money.  Your kind thoughts toward them?  Yes.  But not your blood, sweat nor tears.

Shut up Dave, seriously.

we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.

OK Arielle, look at it this way: If we all have to pay $2000 for some jerkass to get that treatment, why don't we make it so we all only have to pay $200 for that treatment. That dumb bitch won't have to be a dumb bitch anymore and her kid will get seen without all the stress.

Shut up Dave, seriously.

WTF did I do?

Shut up Dave, seriously.

we just won't mention the fact that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IS actually having to PAY for these services.

OK Arielle, look at it this way: If we all have to pay $2000 for some jerkass to get that treatment, why don't we make it so we all only have to pay $200 for that treatment. That dumb bitch won't have to be a dumb bitch anymore and her kid will get seen without all the stress.

Aaron?  They aren't "dumb bitches."

Dear's little sister?  Has 6 kids, from 4 different fathers, some of whom will just have to remain nameless 'cuz she really doesn't remember/know.

That's fucking sad.

She needs help.  The kids need help.  And if MY "rule" had been in place?  She'd have ONE child to concern herself with ~ the other's would be with families that could afford them, that WANTED them, and that would VALUE them.

Where they are?  Es no bueno por nada.

We help.  But we can't do what a loving, RESPONSIBLE mother and father could do.

Those children have been hurt.

And for myself?  I would never have wished that on them, and if I'd had a chance to change things up?  I would have.


And, YES.  The beginning costs MUST be addressed, if any change is going to be made.

(I haven't actually read this anywhere, yet?  But we all will be able to read about it, soon.)