Loaded-Gun.Com - Anti-Social.Com's Rejects!

General Category => Entertainment => Topic started by: underclass on October 04, 2009, 04:52:29 AM

Title: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 04, 2009, 04:52:29 AM
Has anyone tried a book reader? I read a ton, but I can't get excited about reading from a gadget
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: 13chemicals on October 04, 2009, 07:12:21 AM
I read a lot as well and thought this would be a good investment.  I bought one and then returned it, because every time you "turn a page" it fades from bright to dark.  That doesn't happen when I read a real book. 
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 04, 2009, 09:35:47 AM
I figure it'd be great for me, because I can't take my library with me when I move to NZ... I guess I'll wait a few generations
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 04, 2009, 10:22:09 AM
 Your confarngelled gadgetry will replace the book only to those whose literary interests are largely confined to the contents of magazine stands and those poxy best-seller lists.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: ttfg on October 04, 2009, 10:31:14 AM
I dont like the idea.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 04, 2009, 10:43:53 AM
Your confarngelled gadgetry will replace the book only to those whose literary interests are largely confined to the contents of magazine stands and those poxy best-seller lists.

Except that most e-book readers (especially the one from Sony) can consume all kinds of digital formats.  The Kindle can also be hacked, making it available to other formats as well.

And once you're there, you have much of the gutenberg project in various countries to consume, as well as a growing number of publishers that are releasing classic (ie - pre 1970) books for free or as parts of for-pay anthologies.

So, it will replace the book for those who read magazines, best-sellers, and almost every goddamn book written before the 1900s.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 04, 2009, 10:44:49 AM
I read a lot as well and thought this would be a good investment.  I bought one and then returned it, because every time you "turn a page" it fades from bright to dark.  That doesn't happen when I read a real book. 

In borrowing a friend's for a day, I didn't notice that to be a significant issue.

It's due to the nature of eInk technology.  All of the ink pixels have to be "reset" each time a page is drawn.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 04, 2009, 10:44:56 AM
I like reading. Part of what I like about reading is that it's not electronic, there's something nice about that. I guess I'll stick to paper and ink then.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: mosh on October 04, 2009, 10:53:25 AM
I'm only interested in kindle when porn is available on it.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 04, 2009, 10:59:24 AM
2% of kindle content is "Erotica"!
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: FAH-Q on October 04, 2009, 11:11:38 AM
They're still too big and clunky. When they make one that's about the size of a regular paperback book, I'll be interested.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: ttfg on October 04, 2009, 11:22:08 AM
I like reading. Part of what I like about reading is that it's not electronic, there's something nice about that. I guess I'll stick to paper and ink then.

Comics excluded. I could see this kindle thing blurring the lines between cartoons/anime and comic/graphic novel.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Libertine on October 05, 2009, 02:30:31 AM
Slight skeezed out on the kindle for 2 reasons:

1) high fixed cost of the product (kindle) + high variable cost of the e-books relative to regular books
 -- look, i shelled out $$$ for your e-reader so i could buy books for cheaper or pirate them because if there is no paper there is no production cost, ergo, the cost of purchasing individual works should be significantly cheaper, instead they are usually equal or slightly more or slightly less, and are released later than the hardcover/paperback versions.  dumb.

2) potential for 1984'ing my shit that i buy
 -- I don't care much about my copyrights for things like video games because when it comes down to it, the shit is just a video game, but digital rights for books are sacrosanct and having an EULA that allows the corporation entailed to fuck with the work contained is just not legit.

Fix these things then sign me up, until then no thanks.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 05, 2009, 06:47:46 PM
I hear you can get a leather cover that makes it LOOK like a book and a little spray can of scent that makes it SMELL like an old book...

Yeah, Amazon going in and deleting copyrighted shit troubles me. I'll stick to real books. Besides, I haven't figured out my iPod yet, how the fuck and I gonna work THAT thing...?
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 05, 2009, 07:46:37 PM
 As ever, eitje, you've missed the point completely.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 05, 2009, 08:32:01 PM
Ummm... Balor? He's a nerd. A NERD!!! Technology is the point in his world.

You should come to Krsna's this weekend. We can drink vodka martinis and discuss Disraeli.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: FAH-Q on October 05, 2009, 08:57:14 PM
Oh cool, Balor's a Cream fan too? That was an awesome album!
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 05, 2009, 09:14:01 PM
Roight then....
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 05, 2009, 09:25:16 PM
As ever, eitje, you've missed the point completely.

Que? The man was being sarcastic
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: 13chemicals on October 06, 2009, 01:38:29 AM
I think it was sarcasm combating sarcasm. 
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 06, 2009, 02:08:54 AM
No it wasn't. Balor's sarcasm involves religion and dead babies.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 06, 2009, 02:07:23 PM
Except that most e-book readers (especially the one from Sony) can consume all kinds of digital formats.  The Kindle can also be hacked, making it available to other formats as well.

And once you're there, you have much of the gutenberg project in various countries to consume, as well as a growing number of publishers that are releasing classic (ie - pre 1970) books for free or as parts of for-pay anthologies.

So, it will replace the book for those who read magazines, best-sellers, and almost every goddamn book written before the 1900s.

 I'm not seeing the sarcasm. Are you sure you know what that word means? (There is my sarcasm.)

If I could be bothered, I would take pictures of some of my books to illustrate why they will never be replaced by some pocket calculator with ideas above its station.

Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 06, 2009, 02:27:33 PM
I've been reading books I downloaded from Google books on my netbook.  At most, I'll read like that for an hour or two.

It is not nearly as satisfying.  I'm considering just printing them.  Staring at a screen for 8 hours is bad enough when I'm programming/manipulating data/working on drawings or otherwise actively engaged with the computer.  I just can't read a screen for any appreciable length of time - it makes e-books particularly annoying for me, since I'm known to read for 10-15 hours straight if I'm particularly interested in a book.




Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
I've been reading books I downloaded from Google books on my netbook.  At most, I'll read like that for an hour or two.

eInk screens work dramatically differently from standard LCD/LED/OLED screens (which require backlit illumination to work).  Because it's actually polarized ink, there is little to no eye-strain (in my experience).
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 03:05:39 PM
As ever, eitje, you've missed the point completely.

And, as ever, you drop one-liners and opt to act superior.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 03:08:09 PM
They're still too big and clunky. When they make one that's about the size of a regular paperback book, I'll be interested.

The Sony Reader (PRS-505) is 7" tall and 5" wide.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: FAH-Q on October 06, 2009, 03:24:18 PM
Ooh, nice!
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 06, 2009, 05:11:35 PM
As ever, eitje, you've missed the point completely.

And, as ever, you drop one-liners and opt to act superior.

 Who's acting?

 And you're still missing the point, which Zoomie apparently grasped without any trouble whatsoever.

 People who posses a love for literature generally do not give a damn what display technology is being used if it ain't good old Paper 1.0.

 People who poses a love for literature, also tend to posses a love for books.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: FAH-Q on October 06, 2009, 05:28:28 PM
Then explain paperbacks and books on tape/CD?
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 06, 2009, 05:29:23 PM
Your confarngelled gadgetry will replace the book only to those whose literary interests are largely confined to the contents of magazine stands and those poxy best-seller lists.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 06, 2009, 05:30:01 PM
I went to see a silent film with a live band playing along recently and think that's vastly superior than any movie going experience I've ever had.  I wish they still played silent movies with live orchestras instead of giving us garbage like Transformers 2 or Saw VI.

I like records better than any of the subsequent recording formats.

I also prefer solving problems on plain paper by hand to using calculators or computers.

For as entranced as I occasionally become by video games, I'm a grumpy luddite at heart.  I'd give back every technological advance since the advent of antibiotics if I could.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: FAH-Q on October 06, 2009, 05:40:00 PM
Your confarngelled gadgetry will replace the book only to those whose literary interests are largely confined to the contents of magazine stands and those poxy best-seller lists.

That doesn't even make sense. So the only paperbacks and books on CD are poxy best sellers and mags?
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 06:41:09 PM
A great thing to come out of Australia is their version of Project Gutenberg (http://gutenberg.net.au/).

Because their copyright laws are less strict, you can get access to literally gigabytes of texts.  Here's a few off the front page:

Animal Farm by George Orwell
The Great Gatsby by F Scott Fitzgerald
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D H Lawrence
Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Between the Acts by Virginia Woolf


Personally, I think that the WAY information is delivered has no bearing on the information itself.  I do have a room full of books, too, and if I could convert those books into electronic format without destroying them in the process, I certainly would.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 06:42:34 PM
I'm a grumpy luddite at heart.

You smash up the tools of your trade to make a point about socioeconomic inequality??
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 06, 2009, 06:45:28 PM
People who posses a love for literature generally do not give a damn what display technology is being used if it ain't good old Paper 1.0.

People who poses a love for literature, also tend to posses a love for books.

I appreciate that you took the time to come back and step through that with me.

I don't particularly agree with the philosophy, but since you've communicated your stance clearly I can at least understand your opinion and respect it as yours.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 06, 2009, 06:54:15 PM
I've been known to smash the tools of my trade.

Less explicitly about socioeconomic inequality and more about the value of the work being done with it.  



Title: Re: kindle
Post by: ttfg on October 06, 2009, 07:57:24 PM
A great thing to come out of Australia is their version of Project Gutenberg (http://gutenberg.net.au/).

Because their copyright laws are less strict, you can get access to literally gigabytes of texts.  Here's a few off the front page:


RE: Australian and copyright...

A case finaliy started on Tuesday. A negitive result for iinet will most likey have an impact on you. ( US copyright holders will evolve their cases )

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26168959-5013040,00.html (http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26168959-5013040,00.html)

Quote
TODAY the spotlight will be on Australia's Federal Court as the entertainment industry attempts to take its most coveted legal prize since the internet began draining its royalty revenue -- a ruling that would make internet service providers liable for copyright infringement.

This is a HUGE deal within IT over here. The cost of isp having to install humans and software to deal with would push our overpriced access up.

A few words on their defence...

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/157336,revealed-iinets-film-copyright-defence.aspx (http://www.itnews.com.au/News/157336,revealed-iinets-film-copyright-defence.aspx)

and the general one stop place for all the 'best' articles on Aust. IT issues.

 http://whirlpool.net.au/ (http://whirlpool.net.au/)
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 06, 2009, 11:54:27 PM
And you're still missing the point, which Zoomie apparently grasped without any trouble whatsoever.

I grasped the point because I grew up in a home with several bookcases, built by my brothers and I, filled to the top with leather bound tomes of Keats, Shelley, Stoker, Dickens, Aristotle, Carroll and Grahame. I learned to appreciate them and read them all several times with very good reason: We didn't have cable, video games, home computers or cellular telephones. I only consider myself a Luddite in my fantasies. However, literature is crafted by genius and delivered in ink. Not electrons.

That having been said, John Sandford and James Patterson are still my guilty pleasures. And Journey, of course...
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 07, 2009, 12:46:56 AM
And you're still missing the point, which Zoomie apparently grasped without any trouble whatsoever.

I grasped the point because I grew up in a home with several bookcases, built by my brothers and I, filled to the top with leather bound tomes of Keats, Shelley, Stoker, Dickens, Aristotle, Carroll and Grahame. I learned to appreciate them and read them all several times with very good reason: We didn't have cable, video games, home computers or cellular telephones. I only consider myself a Luddite in my fantasies. However, literature is crafted by genius and delivered in ink. Not electrons.

That having been said, John Sandford and James Patterson are still my guilty pleasures. And Journey, of course...

I read a book by James Patterson on a plane once, never ever again. Ugh.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: 13chemicals on October 07, 2009, 01:39:00 AM
And you're still missing the point, which Zoomie apparently grasped without any trouble whatsoever.

I grasped the point because I grew up in a home with several bookcases, built by my brothers and I, filled to the top with leather bound tomes of Keats, Shelley, Stoker, Dickens, Aristotle, Carroll and Grahame. I learned to appreciate them and read them all several times with very good reason: We didn't have cable, video games, home computers or cellular telephones. I only consider myself a Luddite in my fantasies. However, literature is crafted by genius and delivered in ink. Not electrons.

That having been said, John Sandford and James Patterson are still my guilty pleasures. And Journey, of course...

I listened to a song by Journey once, never ever again. Ugh.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 07, 2009, 07:38:07 AM
Oh yeah? Well when you two finally fuck I'm gonna get video of it and that shit's goin' on youtube...
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Wozzeck on October 07, 2009, 08:29:06 AM
Any Way You Want It, starring Sasha "Miss Ile" Twister and Paul "Red" Bogan.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 07, 2009, 08:32:11 AM
They should put James Patterson's books all onto electronic books, bypassing print.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Zoomie on October 07, 2009, 08:35:41 AM
We all have some horrid, uncultured, uncool guilty pleasures. You know it. You're just not secure enough in your manhood to climb the highest peak and proclaim to the world, "I LISTEN TO RUSH LIMBAUGH AND WATCH THE RAMS!!!" or some such shite...
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 07, 2009, 08:41:03 AM
Ah, Terry Pratchett books.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: (_)_)===D on October 07, 2009, 09:28:43 AM
Kindle... I don't know, it seems like just another tool that's going to bring on Mike Judge's vision of homogenized retardedness presented in Idiocracy.

I just found out recently that the large corporate book sellers actually have say in book covers and editing, and I'm assuming their dictations to the publishing houses is based on their sales figures. Example: The man in on this cover is wearing a brown suit, but our figures say that people buy more books with men wearing blue suits on the cover. Tell the publisher we need the cover changed to a blue suit.

Now, if the Kindle can delete your content, who's saying that it's not capable of reporting on your reading habits? I mean, we all know of course that they'll know what books we've purchased, but what's going to keep them from data mining what books have been read to completion, how long it took to read, and whether specific parts were read more than once? In my mind the results of such data accumulation would be a fucking disaster.

Could you imagine a world where everything published has been created only to satisfy a data model based on the type of shit the average person reads most?

Title: Re: kindle
Post by: underclass on October 07, 2009, 09:32:05 AM
Yeah, it's exactly what happened with television
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 07, 2009, 10:18:52 AM
Giant corporations and their retarded marketing departments will inevitably turn every good thing in the world into homogenized garbage.  They've done it to movies, music, automobiles, and countless other things.

At least with books, like music, self-publishing is possible.  Until the internet is fucked over and they put a cost prohibitive tax on paper & ink to prevent piracy.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 07, 2009, 10:23:46 AM
realistically, revocation of net neutrality would topple the internet faster than a paper tax.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 07, 2009, 10:29:58 AM
Taxing paper was just a paranoid joke about the ends some bodies might go to in order to control the flow of information.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 07, 2009, 10:32:16 AM
Now, if the Kindle can delete your content, who's saying that it's not capable of reporting on your reading habits? I mean, we all know of course that they'll know what books we've purchased, but what's going to keep them from data mining what books have been read to completion, how long it took to read, and whether specific parts were read more than once? In my mind the results of such data accumulation would be a fucking disaster.

Since the Kindle is built on Linux, the license requires that they release the product's source to the public.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/16/want-the-kindle-source-code-you-can-have-it/ (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/16/want-the-kindle-source-code-you-can-have-it/)

The book reading software *IS* closed source but, if that really worries you, I fall back on - again - the Kindle is built running Linux.  So, you can just run your own software (http://blog.fsck.com/), including software for book reading.

There's a whole community (http://igorsk.blogspot.com/) of hackers (in the good sense) out there breaking all kinds of shit, so that you can use & abuse technology (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Kindle-2/624/1).
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: taiko on October 07, 2009, 10:35:40 AM
Taxing paper was just a paranoid joke about the ends some bodies might go to in order to control the flow of information.

well, if you're going to be paranoid, I'd recommend bring paranoid about the right things.  :)
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Emperor Reagan on October 07, 2009, 10:40:03 AM
Taxing paper was just a paranoid joke about the ends some bodies might go to in order to control the flow of information.

well, if you're going to be paranoid, I'd recommend bring paranoid about the right things.  :)

Stuff like this actually makes me feel a little better about control of the internet: http://www.rferl.org/content/US_Loosens_Control_Over_Internet/1841281.html (http://www.rferl.org/content/US_Loosens_Control_Over_Internet/1841281.html)
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: (_)_)===D on October 07, 2009, 10:49:38 AM
Now, if the Kindle can delete your content, who's saying that it's not capable of reporting on your reading habits? I mean, we all know of course that they'll know what books we've purchased, but what's going to keep them from data mining what books have been read to completion, how long it took to read, and whether specific parts were read more than once? In my mind the results of such data accumulation would be a fucking disaster.

Since the Kindle is built on Linux, the license requires that they release the product's source to the public.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/16/want-the-kindle-source-code-you-can-have-it/ (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/16/want-the-kindle-source-code-you-can-have-it/)

The book reading software *IS* closed source but, if that really worries you, I fall back on - again - the Kindle is built running Linux.  So, you can just run your own software (http://blog.fsck.com/), including software for book reading.

There's a whole community (http://igorsk.blogspot.com/) of hackers (in the good sense) out there breaking all kinds of shit, so that you can use & abuse technology (http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Kindle-2/624/1).

The point is not that I don't want somebody to data mine my reading habits, the point is that I don't want my choice of reading materials to be dictated by data mining done of the collective public's reading habits... A large portion of whom would never go to such trouble as to place a secure OS on their Kindle.

Doing so could also some day be made illegal. Several years ago Microsoft got pissed about people buying original XBoxes, installing Linux, and using them as inexpensive media servers. Their response was to push for user agreement legislation that would make it illegal to install unintended software on purchased hardware. I think all of corporate America would love to see such legislation in place.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: Doormouse on October 08, 2009, 04:10:29 PM
I went to see a silent film with a live band playing along recently and think that's vastly superior than any movie going experience I've ever had.  I wish they still played silent movies with live orchestras instead of giving us garbage like Transformers 2 or Saw VI.
Get out of my head! I actually go to pains researching the background music that was historically played behind silent movies in lieu of a score. If possible I try to play the proper music along with the film. Silent movies are great.

Along a slightly different vein, I'm also really into dialogueless films like The Triplets of Belville and documentaries like the Qatsi trilogy, Microcosmos, Bodysong, Barka, etc.
Does anybody share my sickness? Does anyone have any recommendations?
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: bagman on October 18, 2009, 02:21:34 AM
I'm too lazy to read. I have stacks of magazines, and books, and more books around the house, that have remained in stacks for years.
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: 13chemicals on October 18, 2009, 04:16:19 AM
Might I recommend this delightful book shelf for your stacks of books and magazines?

(http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/blazquez.jpg)
Title: Re: kindle
Post by: bagman on October 18, 2009, 02:41:32 PM
No dangle? The dudes in the push-up position has no dick. Maybe it's tucked?

Thanks for the thoughtful recommendation, as always Sasha.