Loaded-Gun.Com - Anti-Social.Com's Rejects!

General Category => Politics, Philosophy, News and/or Current Affairs => Topic started by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 08:15:38 AM

Title: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 08:15:38 AM
Spain has been told by the IMF to institute major reforms or face insolvency. Italy claims its economy and current crises are based on ties too close to the markets. I always thought the US would implode before the EU. Thank Mao for the Chinese...

On a related note, I'd like to petition our esteemed and respected masters to send native Guan speakers to the midAtlantic so that I may converse and perhaps have a position of pow...uh... I mean... responsibility.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: The Geek on May 28, 2010, 09:01:28 AM
Me and Detroit picked a great time for a long stay in Europe
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 09:07:30 AM
Watch the exchange rates and work it to your advantage.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: The Geek on May 28, 2010, 09:09:17 AM
I hate to admit... but yeah. That's what we've been doing. Today is the lowest the Euro has been in days, so I'm gonna pay for the apartment in full
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 09:15:04 AM
Why is this a bad thing? You think the Europeans weren't fucking us when the dollar was down?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on May 28, 2010, 11:21:10 AM
By "fucking" you're referring to injecting money into your economy, yes?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 01:18:00 PM
And profiting from it, which is some weasely shit. But yes, I concede that converting your money into USD at a discount and then spending them is a form of economic stimulation. Just as spending Euro at their low point is as well.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Nitya on May 28, 2010, 02:50:51 PM
Opa!!
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Lothar on May 28, 2010, 04:25:37 PM
By "fucking" you're referring to injecting money into your economy, yes?

We're too big to fail.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on May 28, 2010, 05:01:28 PM
No matter how much sense it may or may not make economically, I still think it's extremely weird that people go on vacations to shop at huge American shopping malls.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on May 28, 2010, 07:11:41 PM
Some people actually HAVE money ...
... of course, they were BORN into it, but they have it nonetheless
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on May 28, 2010, 07:58:40 PM
Those lucky swine!

American banks will be able to cherry-pick EU assets now.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on May 28, 2010, 09:06:21 PM
Not just US banks...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
I say fuck them holier than thou continental assholes. When the tower of London is offered on eBay I'mma buy it and have my name put on it in NEON  MUHFUKKA!!!
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on May 28, 2010, 10:52:23 PM
Those lucky swine!

American banks will be able to cherry-pick EU assets now.

There are no "American Banks", they are and always have been trans-national corporations.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on May 28, 2010, 10:56:15 PM
OK Then banks with American sounding names like Wells Fargo and Bank of America, not banks with foreign sounding names like Wachovia or Ally.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on May 31, 2010, 04:59:45 AM
I read an interesting spin that this is a regular debt issue that would have been worked through in good time before the internet made people demand instant fixes and solutions. It had some good points in it.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on May 31, 2010, 09:16:21 AM
I'd be interested in reading that, if you remember where it was.

I'm actually generally curious about the effect of technology on financial markets, but not quite curious enough yet to spend time in the library reading academic journal articles.  Increased speed of information/transactions should generally have a destabilizing effect, just because that's how systems typically work.  I also think that it tends to create positive feedback loops, which create divergent results like the tech bubble, housing bubble, the debt problems at the moment, etc.  That's especially problematic where governments fail to properly regulate markets, because the role of regulation would be a dampening effect.

Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: beeyot on September 27, 2010, 04:46:11 AM
dammit.
i was hoping spain was in full insurrection mode a la greece in december 2009.
ah well. :(
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 06, 2010, 09:35:49 AM
when Japan goes down the rest of the world goes down with it. that is all
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on November 06, 2010, 01:54:31 PM
Except China!
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: beeyot on November 12, 2010, 10:13:39 PM
a post industrial/apocalyptic japan sounds just lovely to me.
i imagine it much like a synthesis of battle royale, versus, and akira, and other awesome movies, but with even more insane screaming.
i'd move back for that.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on July 21, 2011, 09:10:30 AM
Feel like taking a trip to Fukushima, beeyot?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on July 21, 2011, 10:40:53 AM
Cheap digs right now.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on July 21, 2011, 12:41:44 PM
Portugal. I was close.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on July 21, 2011, 01:30:24 PM
Next to default: the USA, because all of the "Tea Party" idiots that were elected to this congress are foolish idealogues.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on July 21, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
Compromise this, fuckers.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Nitya on August 13, 2011, 05:25:29 PM
No matter how much sense it may or may not make economically, I still think it's extremely weird that people go on vacations to shop at huge American shopping malls.

it's new/exotic to them.

I say fuck them holier than thou continental assholes. When the tower of London is offered on eBay I'mma buy it and have my name put on it in NEON  MUHFUKKA!!!

it'll be looted though..
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: FAH-Q on August 13, 2011, 06:18:14 PM
No matter how much sense it may or may not make economically, I still think it's extremely weird that people go on vacations to shop at huge American shopping malls.

Try living someplace where everything is three times the price, if you can even get it. I fucking hate shopping, but if I were presented with the opportunity to spend a day buying stuff in a huge mall, I'd jump at it.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Ineptunian on August 13, 2011, 08:58:01 PM
Next to default: the USA, because all of the "Tea Party" idiots that were elected to this congress are foolish idealogues.

I went to the library to check out a few documentaries about the American economic crisis at the local library and decided to get one sponsored by Citizens United. The title of the DVD: Generation Zero. I turned it off after the first hour because of the more-than ideologically charged connections throughout the 20th century. Mainly, they used the 60's revolution (if you can call it that) as a significant cause of the financial crisis because ex-hippies, leftists, and, well, blacks, who abandoned the depression-era deregulation ethics of their parents, are now yuppies that are still trying to bring down the establishment through regulatory government intrusion on the private sector. The film never took into consideration other factors that caused the economic meltdown like Reagan's deregulation of Great Depression-era safeguards to our economy which would have kept financial institutions in check, NAFTA, import-export imbalance, corporate flight to foreign lands with cheaper labor, and unnecessary market risks in agricultural futures. The think tanks the filmmakers hired to give thoughtful inquiry seemed to propose the concept of the little man pursuing the American Dream through deregulation of the private sector. Well, if everything were as two-dimensional as an Ayn Rand novel, perhaps any ambitious everyman could rise to the top. But the issue isn't with the little man, but is instead about the corporate giants using deregulation to push their way to the top in order to dominate the markets.

The film was nothing but politically charged chicanery aimed at the left in an on-going left-right mudslinging tirade that seems to never stop to address the problems within our economy.

This film was an overzealous attempt of the Tea Party ideology to try explaining its logic above the mob-like jeering and shouting it is used to doing. 
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Doormouse on August 15, 2011, 10:44:54 PM
It's been far too long since I've been to a library. I download 90% of the movies I see and the rest I catch on TV or at the theatre.

And yeah, I've been suckered into watching many a counterpoint film mainly for the laughs (the way I approach it) such as those put out by the anti-evolution crowd, doomsday cultists, etc. only to find them breathtakingly dull and not funny in the least. And I still haven't learned my lesson. I just picked up a DVD at the Church of Scientology in Philly when I was visiting a buddy a few weeks back. I'm just hoping eventually to find a film equivalent of the brilliant Jack Chick comics.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: FAH-Q on August 16, 2011, 03:01:35 AM
That Ben Stein anti-atheist thing just made me angry.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on August 16, 2011, 11:11:17 PM
Was it Ben's POV or the subject matter in general?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: FAH-Q on August 17, 2011, 01:21:40 AM
It was just a completely flawed argument. Evolution is wrong because the nazis tried to experiment with eugenics? He/it missed the point entirely.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Doormouse on August 17, 2011, 08:44:58 AM
That's actually pretty standard among the anti-evolution crowd. For them, it's an issue of strength of authority. The reason they listen to their preacher and trust him implicitly is because he is a '"good decent man" and because there are so few like him today. The preacher convinces his audience through presence, not through logic or evidence. I've repeatedly seen refutations of evolution involving a demonstration that Darwin was a practitioner of incest inasmuch as he married his first cousin. How could such an impure fellow have come up with a True theory?

Sadly it's not just the anti-evolution people either. It's a common argument that appeals to  a wide range of society. Look to the case of Julian Assange. His philosophy of freedom of information and total transparency is completely refuted by the fact that he's alleged to have raped a girl. Scrap the legitimate logical arguments. Rape = impure = wrong. Case closed.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on August 17, 2011, 09:36:46 AM
Look to the case of Julian Assange. His philosophy of freedom of information and total transparency is completely refuted by the fact that he's alleged to have raped a girl.

This was written in the mid 90's... and due to Australian libel laws the names were changed to protect the guilty as well as the innocent... but more or less is some early history of Assange.
http://www.textfiles.com/magazines/TANJ/tanj.083

The problem is that to separate a cause from the person that is the figurehead of it requires setting aside personal values, and people arent comfortable with doing that. So any idiot with an axe to grind will play the man instead of the ball.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: FAH-Q on August 17, 2011, 12:09:21 PM
So any idiot with an axe to grind will play the man instead of the ball.

Wow, well put!







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYSxjW55Kzc
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on August 20, 2011, 01:43:16 PM
Yeah ...
... I thought you only posted "stupid"
... oh, wait, was that was within your outer/other 10%?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on August 21, 2011, 12:06:26 PM
watch out for something mindblowingly amazing in 9 posts time...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on August 21, 2011, 12:41:07 PM
...and after you read that post smash your computer at midnight and your true love will call you within 2 hours...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on August 21, 2011, 03:50:51 PM
Uhm, she calls me all the time (if you count texting) ..
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on August 22, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
your mom dont count
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: ttfg on August 22, 2011, 04:41:22 PM
This is 4.

or is it happening in 9 Mosh posts ???  and on this thread or across the forums.

fucking thread tease.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on August 22, 2011, 10:06:31 PM
It was just a completely flawed argument. Evolution is wrong because the nazis tried to experiment with eugenics? He/it missed the point entirely.

Along with the Bush's and their cabal mates.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on August 28, 2011, 09:39:29 PM
This is 4.

or is it happening in 9 Mosh posts ???  and on this thread or across the forums.

fucking thread tease.

Overall ...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on August 30, 2011, 10:41:58 AM
This is 4.

or is it happening in 9 Mosh posts ???  and on this thread or across the forums.

fucking thread tease.

It'ds every ten posts Brian,  do try to keep up...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on October 08, 2011, 09:03:59 AM
i'm shorting the euro, this is all my fault
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on October 08, 2011, 09:58:24 PM
#9...
#9...
#9...

OK Moshman... wow me.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 01, 2011, 10:44:55 AM
Greece is going to the polls on whether to accept a 50% debt write off.

Fuck me
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on November 01, 2011, 11:48:38 AM
$10 says the Greeks vote it down.

I would also be willing to put $10 on it winning, but through massive voter fraud.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 01, 2011, 08:56:20 PM
If you want a balanced macro-level breakdown on why this is all happening read The Dolar Crisis.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on November 01, 2011, 10:54:36 PM
Well, at least provide a link.

http://www.fame.org/pdf/The%20Dollar%20Crisis%20Robert%20Blumen%2012-20-03.pdf (http://www.fame.org/pdf/The%20Dollar%20Crisis%20Robert%20Blumen%2012-20-03.pdf)
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Ineptunian on November 04, 2011, 04:19:55 PM
I would like to buy up some cheap Euros from remote banks in greek cities once they convert back to their own national currency.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on November 06, 2011, 12:37:49 PM
I would like to knock over an armored car.

I once watched a local bank load pallet loads of cash in tightly wrapped 3 foot square (solid cubic yard blocks of cash) into one.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on November 07, 2011, 09:38:35 AM
Read this comment predicting the course for the next few years on one of the review pages for the Dollar Crisis, which seems pretty reasonable:

"Deflation, followed by inflation. Money is being dropped by helicopters but only into banks, who are busy lending only to each other. The rest of the economy continues to contract, driving down demand and the need for liquidity, causing deflation and lower CPI. At some point, the economy will rebound, and Bernanke is confident that he can hit the brakes in time - but he won't be able to stop the flood of pent up liquidity, which will destroy the value of the dollar. In the short term, cash is king."
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 07, 2011, 11:10:08 PM
Not bad for a book written in 2002/2003
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on November 08, 2011, 06:29:54 AM
The reason I went hard at paying off my humble dwelling was that I saw this coming. Too much easy money flying around.

Now, if I can remain employed long enough to buy some land up the mountains near Omeo, enough canned peaches to last 6 years, and enough weapons and ammo to repel a zombie horde, I'll consider my life a success.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on November 08, 2011, 07:06:27 AM
I need to find the right timing on buying a house.  I'm thinking that the timing should be good within the next two years or so, but so many conflicting views out there makes it hard to guess.  I'd like to start some mid scale farming, start looking at building seed stocks and building up the biomass in my dirt.

Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 08, 2011, 09:14:39 AM
trust me you've got time to do this. If you can afford it now get it and lock down the interest rate for 20 years
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on November 08, 2011, 11:32:08 AM
Holding off for the cash from my reception and cash from my grandfather's estate.

It's better that we have had to wait in the long run, because we have done more analysis on the ideal place for us to live, career wise, and how much we'd like to spend on a house.

If we had bought this year, it probably would have been in Baltimore or in a mostly middle-to-upper class suburb where houses cost more than I'm comfortable paying.  I want a mortgage we can comfortably afford on 1 salary - so more like 35-40% of the $500,000 the realtors think we should be willing to pay.   
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 09, 2011, 03:29:35 AM
your first house doens't have to be your dream house.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on November 09, 2011, 09:46:21 AM
I'm not too worried about finding a particular house.  I don't mind putting in hard work to get things the way I want them.

I'm just a little obsessed with the garden, composting, and building up soil at this point, because I have been reading books about agricultural methods, maximizing yields, etc. 
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: underclass on November 18, 2011, 08:19:37 PM
68 million empty apartments in China and climbing.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on November 18, 2011, 11:19:56 PM
68 million empty apartments in China and climbing.

Pretty much the same here in the states. Yet they keep building more.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on December 12, 2011, 04:57:24 AM
Yeah, I dont get that... the train trip from Philly to NYC was an eye opener the first time round... all through Jersey empty factories, hundreds of them. Ok, sure the land probablly isnt habitable by any menas, but tearing through that much arable land just to poison and waste it makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on December 12, 2011, 02:44:18 PM
Building codes almost always make it cheaper to build a new factory or apartment building than to refurbish an old one.  Rehabbing old buildings for asbestos, lead, and other contaminants is often prohibitively expensive, so people just don't do it unless there are other constraints that limit them.

Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on December 17, 2011, 12:10:44 PM
I'm moving to the Jacksonville area in Feb, starting a new yurt after the holidays. I have my eye on several properties in southern WV, TN, and KY.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on December 17, 2011, 02:27:22 PM
Building codes almost always make it cheaper to build a new factory or apartment building than to refurbish an old one.  Rehabbing old buildings for asbestos, lead, and other contaminants is often prohibitively expensive, so people just don't do it unless there are other constraints that limit them.

Yep what's a good American businessman to do when he finds he has two 110 story corrosion riddled white elephants on his hands, spend billions to properly demolish them or ...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on December 19, 2011, 01:11:21 AM
Exactly ...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Emperor Reagan on December 19, 2011, 09:17:36 AM
That's the free market way.

Rezone farm land to built new facilities and houses instead of dealing with rehabbing or demolishing the old.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: mosh on December 21, 2011, 02:42:03 AM
I'm moving to the Jacksonville area in Feb, starting a new yurt after the holidays. I have my eye on several properties in southern WV, TN, and KY.

Didnt you already buy some and in WV?
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Tru on December 21, 2011, 03:43:02 AM
Maybe he plans to dig a tunnel into CIA headquarters.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on December 21, 2011, 04:26:26 PM
I thought that was Emp ...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on December 21, 2011, 08:32:42 PM
I've been monitoring the market up there closely but unless and until I'm in a position to go walk a property I'm not buying. And prices are plummeting there too.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on December 22, 2011, 12:14:57 AM
Get a $1 property ...
No love lost there ...
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Zoomie on December 22, 2011, 10:09:45 PM
Nah. I've lived in MI and visited Detroit. Pass thanks.
Title: Re: First Greece, Now Spain, Next Italy?
Post by: Thrash on December 23, 2011, 01:30:10 AM
Hahahaha ...
I still like our idea though ...