I've been playing GTA4: The Lost and Damned and it's actually pretty fun, if kinda lackluster so far.  But then again, so was GTA4.

But you get to ride in chopper races and swing at the other racers with a baseball bat so Win!

I downloaded the demo for FLOCK! today.
Nick/Zoomie, it's a sheep-farming simulator.

I downloaded the demo for FLOCK! today.
Nick/Zoomie, it's a sheep-farming simulator.

How is Flock?  I saw it on Steam but didn't look into it.

I've been doing some GTA4 lately.  I think my only gripe about it is how shitty it runs on my less than six month old computer, and how time-consuming it is to get anywhere in the game.  I just taxi it everywhere now because of how long it takes to drive from Pt a to b.  The storyline is good though, I find myself actually interested in the character development and I like the choice missions where you end up deciding who lives and dies and it fixes the storyline after that much.

I liked that it took a long time to drive across the city, because it meant there was a hell of a lot of city to fuck around in, and the level of detail is amazing. 

Ugh. I hate Steam.

How is Flock?  I saw it on Steam but didn't look into it.

I was extremely bored by it.

Also:  Steam is the best compromise between publishers and users that's currently available.

OK, but why do we have to compromise? I don't see any compromises going on with the music industry or the film industry and both are doing quite well.

OK, but why do we have to compromise? I don't see any compromises going on with the music industry or the film industry and both are doing quite well.

Please see the DRM thread for compromises made in other entertainment industries.

Haha. That's the one thread on L-G that I've been skipping. I got into it too late and haven't been motivated enough to read it yet.

Anyway I still think Steam is evil. It's divesting consumers of their property rights. Or, to put it differently, it's ensuring that those rights never become established. They should call it a rental service because that's what it is. Long-term rental. I have the same uneasiness about this system as I do about MMORPGs. Both are systems perpetuated by grasping, avaricious VG distributors who couldn't care less if the games are playable in 30 years. Maybe they even plan to make the consumer shell out another wad of cash to buy the hard-copy after it's obsolete. It's disgusting. It breathes middle-man. There's no way the artists behind the games would want this. I reckon the artists behind MMORPGs are more into temporal art so they just don't care, but the artists who release stuff via Steam? Why? They're talked into it by the middle-men.

EDIT: OK that's not totally accurate. I also skip the ID thread since people got whiny last time I spoke on that subject.

The games are barely playable now, let alone in 30 years time.

Hence I only play old old games.

Ugh. I hate Steam.

I don't dislike Steam, but I don't use it a lot either.

I've only ever used it to buy Valve's games and Audiosurf (a game that isn't retailed anywhere else).

I made the mistake of buying a copy of halflife 2 at a garage sale a few months ago, I thought since i was getting back online social, i might play a game. Huge mistake. Huge.

I didnt know anything about this steam crap then, I do now.

Basically what PC Game publishers are doing is eliminating your ability to resell games.  Since I've never resold a game in my life, I don't really mind so much.

I have more sympathy for PC Game publishers than Console publishers, because PC is my favorite platform by far, and PC publishers are forced to deal with piracy where console really doesn't have to deal with that at all.  I've never purchased a PC game and had any problems keeping my ownership rights to it.

Blizzard has a thing now where you can register your old CD keys on their site and download patched versions of the game on any PC anywhere with your universal Blizzard login.  I loaded up all my CD-keys on their website when I created a new battle.net account and I re-downloaded Starcraft recently and installed it from their site because I felt like playing it for a few hours.  No problems.

If anything I think most of the innovation is on the "good guy side".

There's a lot of bullshit that is going on with media right (see DRM thread) but I think PC Game publishers are fairly benign in comparison to the assholes who run the Music and Movie industries.

If you're supporting Steam then you're part of the problem. You're burning your own ass.

EDIT: Also, in eliminating your ability to resell/pirate games, the PC Game publishers are eliminating your ability to replay games as a side-effect. If you've never resold a game in your life then surely you appreciate the terribleness of this. That's the way I am. I love my games. I can't stand what these companies like Steam are doing to them. I just made a big post about it at the DRM thread.

Im going to point out,

I think steam is an interesting concept.
I don't game like the ppl in this convo.
I just didnt like getting ripped off.

Im going to point out,

I think steam is an interesting concept.
I don't game like the ppl in this convo.
I just didnt like getting ripped off.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from Joe.  It's clear to see from this thread who the uber-nerds are.  I don't think I've ever purchased a game second hand, because I'm always afraid of being ripped off.  Something is missing, the discs are ruined, the CD key has been banned, etc. etc.

Well OK I can take that label, but you gotta realize I'm being a property rights uber-nerd here rather than a video game uber-nerd.
If you don't like getting ripped off, then why smile while the companies to do it to you? It hurts everybody.

Speaking of GTA4, I bought that shit months ago and have yet to play it. It's fucking daunting, so I reckon I'll just see if I can get a copy of someone's save game so I can rampage throughout the whole city and not have to do any work.

Also, how's Audiosurf, by the way Libertine? I have high hopes for it.

Also, how's Audiosurf, by the way Libertine? I have high hopes for it.

It's probably the best $10 I ever spent on a video game.  It has infinite re-playability.  Even my girlfriend loved it.

It's like a psychedelic key-mashing version of guitar hero except you pick your own game play options (how the tracks work) and you pick your own music.

It's really awesome with long trance and metal songs.  It's amazing with how it forms tracks for some songs though.

Awesome. Speaking of nerdiness, that right there is a big nerdiness of mine. Music in games. I'm a total head-over-heels sucker. There are very few musically generated games and that's what had me so excited about Audiosurf. Like you said, infinite replayability. Hot. There's a game like this that came out for Wii that I want too, called Helix.

It's really awesome with long trance and metal songs.  It's amazing with how it forms tracks for some songs though.

ugh this sounds like my own personal hellspace.

Okay, I didn't really get ripped off.

This is what I got for $40 Au.

Rainbow Six 3
Vietcong
Medal of Honor : Allied Assault
Medal of Honor : Pacific Assault
Project I.G.I
Project I.G.I-2 Covert Strike
Ghost Recon : complete box pack (all mission add ons.)

and then of course half life 2, the only one i wanted to play.

for $40 I think i got a good deal.

There's no way the artists behind the games would want this. I reckon the artists behind MMORPGs are more into temporal art so they just don't care, but the artists who release stuff via Steam? Why?

Because it really is cut-throat to get a publisher in the video game industry that won't try to manipulate and control every facet of your art.  So, when a digitial distribution system comes along like Steam such that you don't need to have boxed copies on store shelves anymore, you - as an artist and a person that wants to make money - see it as a golden opportunity to get your creation out into the world at minimal cost.

If you don't like getting ripped off, then why smile while the companies to do it to you? It hurts everybody.

I'd be surprised if you'd ever crafted a thing for sale in your life, saying nonsense like this.

I don't think I've ever purchased a game second hand, because I'm always afraid of being ripped off.  Something is missing, the discs are ruined, the CD key has been banned, etc. etc.

Also note, whenever you purchase a used game from any storefront like GameStop, they pocket ALL of the money.  Used games sales directly impact the bottom line for production & development houses.
And whatever you may feel about DRM, saving $5 on a video game purchase takes away all of the remaining revenue for the original artists.  Which is bunk.

The games are barely playable now, let alone in 30 years time.

Hence I only play old old games.

http://www.gog.com/

Good Old Games has built an emulation engine which allows really, really old games to be playable in even the newest operating systems.
They operate with a framework similar to Steam's, however.

EDIT: Also, in eliminating your ability to resell/pirate games, the PC Game publishers are eliminating your ability to replay games as a side-effect. If you've never resold a game in your life then surely you appreciate the terribleness of this. That's the way I am. I love my games. I can't stand what these companies like Steam are doing to them.

Valve is the company, Steam is the product.

And I will agree on one point, here:  purchasing a game via Steam means that your ownership of that game is fully dependent upon the benevolence of Valve, to make sure that their DRM & Digital Distribution system (Steam) keeps working.  In the last decade, they've been pretty reliable as a development studio as well as a publishing studio.  And while you and I both know that will only last as long as it's profitable for it to last, I'm willing to believe based on historical evidence that they'll continue to provide Steam as a service for many, many years to come.

Didnt steam shut down at somepoint ? I have a vauge memory about this.

Didnt steam shut down at somepoint ? I have a vauge memory about this.

It was buggy at launch, but it's been stable for many years now.

Also note, whenever you purchase a used game from any storefront like GameStop, they pocket ALL of the money.  Used games sales directly impact the bottom line for production & development houses.
And whatever you may feel about DRM, saving $5 on a video game purchase takes away all of the remaining revenue for the original artists.  Which is bunk.

Wait, what?  You've got to be kidding.  It sounds like you're saying that if I sell GTA4 to a friend of mine for 20 bucks then I should mail 10 of that to Rockstar because they made the game.  Once you buy the game, the company has their money, where do you get the idea that they deserve more from a resale?