I was surprised there are Kennedy's left

I know one generally should not speak ill of the dead...

But, fuck that guy.

I hope he spends eternity trapped upside down in a frozen river in the lowest circle of hell.

I only found out about the guy this morning on the BBC news. Apparently he drove a car into the sea, the female passenger died and he ran away to talk to his lawyers. But he's still an amazing guy and we all should love him so much.

That was in the 60's, stuff that happened back then doesn't really matter now.

Yeah so they should let Manson out of jail...

Yeah so they should let Manson out of jail...

Well, he'd be too busy getting his dick sucked by the likes of Marilyn Manson to cause any real problems...so I have no problem with it.

They let Squeaky out last week. Gawd she was hot... but she was clueless when it came to guns.

That was in the 60's, stuff that happened back then doesn't really matter now.

Don't shoot the messenger; I was just summarising what I got from the news this morning.

I only found out about the guy this morning on the BBC news. Apparently he drove a car into the sea, the female passenger died and he ran away to talk to his lawyers. But he's still an amazing guy and we all should love him so much.

When any well-known person/ celebrity in America dies, suddenly they are the best human being that ever lived and never did anything but good.

Such as Michael Jackson, Anna Nicole Smith, etc.

It's fucking retarded but it's true.

When any well-known person/ celebrity in America dies, suddenly they are the best human being that ever lived and never did anything but good.

Such as Michael Jackson, Anna Nicole Smith, etc.

It's fucking retarded but it's true.

I have the graph to prove it.

Yeah so they should let Manson out of jail...

They let Al Megrahi out...

When any well-known person/ celebrity in America dies, suddenly they are the best human being that ever lived and never did anything but good.

Such as Michael Jackson, Anna Nicole Smith, etc.

It's fucking retarded but it's true.

Seriously.

They let Al Meghrahi out because he sounds Scottish.

Al MacGraheigh.

...that and he has cancer.

So? Fuck him.

Well I can't speak for anyone else but if it were my father dying in jail I'd want him released for humanitarian reasons no matter what his crime. But the hero's welcome was excessive and unnecessary. Kaddafi isn't trying hard enough to normalize relations.

How about all the fathers, mothers, sons and daughters of the people whose deaths he was responsible for? Their desires are less important than his family's?

He doesn't have to.  The US is too over-extended to do anything to him militarily, plus would have no justification for it.  The US is also in too precarious of an economic position to play hardball with anyone anymore on that front.

Also, we celebrate, protect, and mourn people that could be considered terrorists by other nations.  Numerous presidents carried out genocide against the Native Americans, various military actions could be called terrorist acts, our "heroes" trained South American & Latin American death squads, we let Kissinger, Cheney, etc. run around free, etc.  If their national hero was only responsible for the death of 200 Americans?  He's in pathetic company compared to ours.

Siko I'd only add to Emps post by saying the US is the largest terrorist nation in the world. What we do isn't considered terrorism because we only blow up the "bad guys". We prop up nations that subjugate, murder, invade and destroy.

9/11 not withstanding, we've lost the right to cry about what other countries do, and we never had the right to dictate.

Also, we celebrate, protect, and mourn people that could be considered terrorists by other nations.  Numerous presidents carried out genocide against the Native Americans, various military actions could be called terrorist acts, our "heroes" trained South American & Latin American death squads, we let Kissinger, Cheney, etc. run around free, etc.  If their national hero was only responsible for the death of 200 Americans?  He's in pathetic company compared to ours.

Absofuckinglutely.

Siko I'd only add to Emps post by saying the US is the largest terrorist nation in the world. What we do isn't considered terrorism because we only blow up the "bad guys". We prop up nations that subjugate, murder, invade and destroy.

Agreed completely. Freedom fighter is the same thing as terrorist, it just depends on who's writing the history books.

That said, I'm not a fan of any action that targets *innocent people, no matter who's pulling the trigger or who the innocent people are.

--

*Yes, an argument can be made that no-one is innocent, blah blah, etc. But I think you know what I mean.

We're on the same page. But if it were your father, and he made some poor choices, and were meeting his end, you'd want him to go in the arms of those he loves and love him.

For sure. But if that were the case, I don't think it'd be right for my wishes to be taken into consideration more than the wishes of the people my father had hurt. Of course, if it were my father, I'm sure I'd be singing a different tune.

Exactly my point. When we lose our humanity we become the animals we accuse them of being.

The united States, which put an end to WWI, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which put an end to WWII, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which in the wake of WWII rebuilt Europe, including those nations it fought against, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which in the wake of WWII rebuilt Japan, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which saved South Korea from becoming part of the Kims' Marxist slave-state, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which attempted to prevent Vietnam from becoming a Marxist slave-state (and would have succeeded if not for the sabotage of the political left, whose enlightened beneficence resulted in the mass slaughter and oppression  of the Vietnamese and Cambodians), is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which spent half a century resisting the totalitarian USSR in its quest to dominate the world, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which prevented Sadam from slaughtering the Kuwaitis, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which spent ten years keeping Sadam in check, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which liberated 32,000,000 Afghanis from the Taliban and gave them a chance to rebuild their nation, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which liberated 28,000,000 Iraqis and Kurds from Sadam's regime, gave them a chance to rebuild their nation, and gave those within neighboring countries hope that they might someday see an end to their own dire straights by following the Iraqis example (and in the process eliminated a possible trigger to another world war via Sadam cutting off Europe's oil supply), is a terrorist nation?

The United States, whose private citizens  as well as government programs, give vastly more in aid to the less fortunate around the globe, is a terrorist nation?

The United States, which has served as the engine of technological progress in every field of human endeavor, from entertainment, to medical science, to the exploration of space, is a terorist nation?

The United States, which has served as the economic engine which has raised the standard of living throughout much of the world far above anything ever seen before int he history of the human race, is a terrorist nation?

Agreed completely. Freedom fighter is the same thing as terrorist, it just depends on who's writing the history books.

No, it is not. You should be so grateful that you are able to live such a sufficiently sheltered existence that you may afford to believe something so morally and intellectual without merit.

I would strongly suggest you look into not only the methods, but the history and philosophical motivations of Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Queda, the Taliban... oh, and that darling of young fools everywhere, Ernesto "The Butcher of la Cabana" Guevara.

For the Islamist you might as well start at the root, and you might as well begin with those who have lived and left his perverse creed: http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm

As for Che, well, there's no lack of Cubans still alive who witnessed what that bastard did to their country, or who lost family to his firing squads for failure to accept their lot as obedient proles.

Fuck you, your sainted mother and the horse that carried you both across the river Jordan.

No, it is not. You should be so grateful that you are able to live such a sufficiently sheltered existence that you may afford to believe something so morally and intellectual without merit.

Oh, I am.

I would strongly suggest you look into not only the methods, but the history and philosophical motivations of Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Queda, the Taliban...

Um, dude? This thread ended up on this topic because I was saying how I objected to Al Megrahi being let out of prison. I'm not defending anyone's right to be a murdering bastard.

Fucknut, don't think you can school me. I'm twice your age and I spent a third of my life in uniform, writing books and reports that assisted national leaders in the formulation of foreign policy.

Whereas you fell off a porch.

I have a different perspective because I've seen it from both sides and I've made my choice.

Whereas you fell off a porch.

My father served in Vietnam, believed he was doing the right thing, came home and saw the left treat veterans like shit, acknowledges that the war was lost because the effort was undermined by civilian leadership... and yet he still votes Democrat. He even voted or John Fucking Kerry, the asshat who practically invented the patronizing, belittling stereotype of Vietnam veterans as maniacs and broken men with his little parade of tall tales.

The point is, some people will get the wrong ideas no matter what they experience.

So why don't you spare me the Critical Theory talking points and parroting of Soviet-style dezinformatsiya.

The only thing worse than bullshit, is self-loathing, culturally suicidal bullshit.

The West is not perfect. America is not perfect. But compared to the alternatives both past and present, it might as well be the fucking kingdom of heaven.


PS- I did not fall off a porch, I bounded from it. Not that it has a damned thing to do with this conversation.

PPS- Fair point about the jackass Scotland cut loose, but you might want to re-exam such stock phrases nonetheless.

Someday, someone will tell the poor widdle baby ogre that there's no tooth fairy, either.

I'm concerned.

I've heard that "My father was in VietNam" line before. That makes you a... partially informed civilian.

OK now that I got my dig in, Vietnam was a mistake. Something else we can blame on JFK, who had a seemingly endless string of fuckups. The average Vietnamese couldn't tell you the difference betwixt capitalism and communism. All they knew was that someone was preventing them from getting their rice to market and raping their daughters. If your father didn't teach you that much he was also uninformed or he simply failed you.

Also there is no verifiable evidence that "liberals" or "Hippies" ever spit on returning Vietnam vets. It's an urban legend that went 15 times around the world, much like the panel that will decide whether or not your granny dies should she get too sick.

John Kerry was a pussy.

America is far from perfect. And until it is, I will continue to fight and badmouth every person in power. None of this is classified, non of this in unknown, but no one wants to do anything about it. Do you think Bush and Cheney should go unpunished for their crimes? I don't think being known as the worst leaders in this countries history is good enough.

Ok enough.

I've heard that "My father was in VietNam" line before. That makes you a... partially informed civilian.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the context or the point I was making.

Seriously, it's great to see what a knitting circle-jerk political discussion here has turned into after years without the usual dissenting voices.