The Phoenicians were the Canaanites and the Canaanites were the Phoenicians.

It should be noted that the Phoenicians' power peaked after Israel came into being.

Carthage, a colony built in Africa and which warred with the Romans, was Phoenician, for example.


Now are you going to pretend I was serious in telling you to get out of Australia?

You were the one making the kind of argument which would by extension justify the UN and/or Obama dictating that you must leave your home and return it to the Aborigines.

Not something I have a problem with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_title

Native title is "the recognition by Australian law that some Indigenous people have rights and interests to their land that come from their traditional laws and customs".[1] The concept recognises in certain cases there was and is a continued beneficial legal interest in land held by local Indigenous Australians which survived the acquisition of title to the land by the Crown at the time that the Crown acquired sovereignty of Australia.

So, if they adopted the same tactics as the Jordanian exiles... who aren't even a proper parallel since they aren't native, but which I am using to entertain you; indoctrinating their children into a rabid, genocidal hatred for whites, sending suicide bombers into markets and schools, dropping artillery on populated areas... you'd be cool with that? You'd be cool with them if they desired to remake Australia as a nation ruled under a tribal law which called for the murder of women who "allow" themselves to be raped? One in which all those unwilling to convert to aboriginal religions were forced to pay a "protection" tax? One in which your legal rights would be somewhere between that of a dog's and a woman's (a woman's being the lesser of the two)? You would be cool if they came to your house, specifically, put a gun to your head, and said "This is my house now. Your things ar emine. Get out."?

Not something I have to worry about, strawman.

That is not a strawman argument. That is the "Palestinian" argument.

...and you're right, it's not something you have to worry about, which is why you have the luxury of being a hypocrite.

It strawman in the context you used it.


How do you feel about Israel having the lagest armed forces in the region and their need ( as you put it ) for the land they have occupied, to keep themselves safe ?

 No, it is not. I was simply testing your objectivity, and it turned out you had none.


 I think Isreal's rather sizable IDF is the natural result of being a non-Muslim, and more specifically, largely Jewish* nation, surrounded largely by Islamic states (pus one Baathist).

 Islam is a cult of proselytic violence and oppression. Islamic states are proselytic and violent. Jews, having resisted Muhammad's tyranical conquest of the Middle East, have always been a favorite target of Islam. You are aware that a good portion of the current Israeli populace is made up of Jews who are refugees from Islamic nations who robbed them of all their possessions and then drove them out at the point of a bayonet, aren't you?


* There are Israeli Muslims, you know. They enjoy more freedom in Israel than Muslims do in Islamic nations. They serve in the IDF just like everyone else. The IDF's scouts are in fact traditionally made up entirely of men who come from an Islamic, nomadic tribe. Then there are the Druze, who make up a disproportionately large part of the IDF's most elite soldiers.

Let's see, I was yesterday, Brian is on today...

Emp, you have Balor duty tomorrow. Be ready.

No, it is not. I was simply testing your objectivity, and it turned out you had none.

No. I suplied a reason as to why I dont have to 'go home'. You inturn replied with hypothetical which could never happen. or a strawman.

Islam is a cult of proselytic violence and oppression.

wft?

Islamic states are proselytic and violent. Jews, having resisted Muhammad's tyranical conquest of the Middle East, have always been a favorite target of Islam. You are aware that a good portion of the current Israeli populace is made up of Jews who are refugees from Islamic nations who robbed them of all their possessions and then drove them out at the point of a bayonet, aren't you?


* There are Israeli Muslims, you know. They enjoy more freedom in Israel than Muslims do in Islamic nations. They serve in the IDF just like everyone else. The IDF's scouts are in fact traditionally made up entirely of men who come from an Islamic, nomadic tribe. Then there are the Druze, who make up a disproportionately large part of the IDF's most elite soldiers.

None of this addresses the question.

Yes and white people used to own and treat black people like slaves sousing this logic it would be totally OK for them to round up whitey and sell him to Hungarian slave merchants. And line the gimpy ones up against a wall and waste a bullet on them, of course.

Yes, you are avioding the question. again.

Let's see, I was yesterday, Brian is on today...

Emp, you have Balor duty tomorrow. Be ready.

Pssht.  I'm not getting suckered into arguments about Israel.

Yesterday was healthcare, today is the right of Israel to exist, tomorrow is whatever you want to pull out of your ass.

 Israel has a disproportionately large military because it needs one to survive. Do I need to make it any clearer?

As for your claim that they have the largest military in the Middle East:

                active        reserve

Iran                    845,000    1,145,000    

Turkey           514,850    380,000    

Egypt           450,000    254,000

Syria               296,000    132,500

Iraq                  273,618    0

Saudi Arabia    199,500    20,000

Greece           177,600    291,000

Israel            176,500    445,000


Note that I included Greece just for illustration: We all know what a powerhouse they are.

Per capita Israel has more active and in reserve than anyone else in the ME, yet still fewer than say, South Korea.

Yeah, Zoomie, and last week I was an antisemitie, and this week I'm a racist.

What are you going to pull out of your ass next?

stuff he typed/pasted

You have failed to adress the land component. AGAIN.


and now some quotes from gandhi

I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers.

It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.

Give me a few moments with photoshop and you'll be chairing a meeting of the Council on Foreign Relations. Not that you haven't actually done that...

Are you seriously arguing that would be a really keen idea for Israel to abandon the high ground that gives them radar over Syria (and thus discouraging another attempt at invasion), and just twiddle their thumbs as the self-exiled Jordanians (you would call them "Palestinians") set up artillery in the hills to rain down on the Jews they have sworn to annihilate, and possibly cut-off or poison one of Israel's main water sources?

 What is it that is so unique about Israel, that when they are threatened with invasion by another nation, and capture land from the aggressor, they are by some contortion of culpability accused of aggression and thievery?

I believe Ghandi also suggested Hitler could be reasoned with via nonviolent protest and, uh, there was something along the lines of "Fuck kafirs," too.

Yes Wozza, that came before the question.

Now ... add the 'largest armed forces in the region' to your belief they 'need' the land and give your opinion. 

Without the Golan Heights they have a massive radar-blocking wall which gives Syria a free pass on another invasion.

Without settlements on the Golan Heights Hamas has a free pass to drop artillery fire into Israel.

How is that so difficult to grasp? Is it simply because you do not wish to?

Why do you repeatedly lie about Israel "having the largest military"?

Here's what we can argue about:

I don't want the government to contribute anything to the interstate system.  I think it biases the transportation market towards tractor trailers.

Tractor trailers kill unicorns, which is bad.

Without the Golan Heights they have a massive radar-blocking wall which gives Syria a free pass on another invasion.

So that's why they are buliding houses on it ?

Without settlements on the Golan Heights Hamas has a free pass to drop artillery fire into Israel.

So having people living there will stop the other people from killing people ? interesting tactic.

Why do you repeatedly lie about Israel "having the largest military"?

I'll give you this one. They are just the best equipped, negating the need for the land grab.

Yes and white people used to own and treat black people like slaves sousing this logic it would be totally OK for them to round up whitey and sell him to Hungarian slave merchants. And line the gimpy ones up against a wall and waste a bullet on them, of course.

I know I said I'd stay out since this conversation has lost any semblance of focus (kind of an allegory for the original topic, ironically), but this caught my eye. I can assure you the Hungarians stayed right out of this little crime against humanity. They have their share of racisms, sure, and if given the chance they'd probably have jumped right into the slaving business, but that's not the way history tells it. No siree. Just a minor point of order. The clown circus can recommence now.

 So if you have a large, well equipped military, leaving a glaring blind spot all along one border is good defensive planning?

 If you have a large, well equipped military, rockets dropped on your cities by terrorists will... what, just fizzle out and spit out a flag that says "BOOM!", instead of killing people?

 And no, they do not build houses in Golan to act as radar arrays. They build radar arrays to act as radar arrays.

Yes and white people used to own and treat black people like slaves sousing this logic it would be totally OK for them to round up whitey and sell him to Hungarian slave merchants. And line the gimpy ones up against a wall and waste a bullet on them, of course.

I know I said I'd stay out since this conversation has lost any semblance of focus (kind of an allegory for the original topic, ironically), but this caught my eye. I can assure you the Hungarians stayed right out of this little crime against humanity. They have their share of racisms, sure, and if given the chance they'd probably have jumped right into the slaving business, but that's not the way history tells it. No siree. Just a minor point of order. The clown circus can recommence now.

Not one Hungarian ?

Are you excluding Indenture ?

I know I said I'd stay out since this conversation has lost any semblance of focus (kind of an allegory for the original topic, ironically), but this caught my eye. I can assure you the Hungarians stayed right out of this little crime against humanity.

And since today isn't your day you can fuck right off.

So if you have a large, well equipped military, leaving a glaring blind spot all along one border is good defensive planning?

about as good as letting your people build house on it when you know it's going to cause shit globaly AND put the aforementioned people at mortal risk AND all the rest of your people.

and Israel has access to the USA def sat network. I rather sure somebody would call if they noticed an army marching up the hill.