Fitna part 1/4 English Geert Wilders!

Fitna Fitnah Part 2 By Geert Wilders

Thank God that guy's gone.

Can't you boys find a new toy to play with?

Here you go Zoomie, just for you:

Michael Jackson the jews suck, they're like leeches

I thought we had an unspoken agreement to keep all the anti-Muslim bigotry confined to this shameful thread.

I thought we had an unspoken agreement to keep all the anti-Muslim bigotry confined to this shameful thread.

Sorry.

This message board is now entirely about reducing world population by committing genocide against various religious groups.

Alright, so let's kill some muslims and turn them into nachos!

As long as avocado is also part of the menu.
Nachos are the solution to everything.

Michael Jackson the jews suck, they're like leeches

I don't care because he's dead and I'm not a practicing Jew. I can't even determine my paternal genealogy. WTF do I care?

As long as avocado is also part of the menu.
Nachos are the solution to everything.

No they aren't. For a Simpsons fan, you still haven't absorbed the basics.

Beer is the (cause of) and solution to all life's problems.

Not for nothin', but if we were to allow only non-god-believers to live, there'd be a whole lotta world to go around.

Also, a shitload of people I care about/like/don't wish death upon would die, so that would suck from my perspective.

Nachos are the solution to everything.

My legacy!

I'm hungry now, thank you for nothing, internet

You know what I find baffling?

There's an entire region of the world where they're covering their children in blood and telling them to go kill the infidels, and somehow I'm the bigot. I mean, I really can't understand how my concern for a religion that's (by Doormouse's and other's  assertions) chosen to become a violent death cult, that wants to subjugate the world, and is frothing at the bit to kill everyone who disagrees with them has made me a bad person.

What you fail to realize (or maybe admit?) Doormouse is that these people, who you've become for some unknown reason so enamored with defending, would gleefully slice your head off just to prove how faithful they are to the religion that you claim doesn't tell them to do these things.

Don't you get it? You can tell us all day long that Islam isn't about killing the infidel and taking over the world, but if you said that to these people they'd scream Infidel and lop your head off.

You say that here in the US Muslims don't want to take over our government or kill the infidel. You say that the violence is the result of fundamentalism, and extremism, regardless of the facts that Islam's holy books themselves constantly cry out for violence and instruct it's followers to place the world under Islam's rule. So, that leads naturally to the following question.

What is extremism?

Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common moral standards.

I think that's a pretty fair definition of extremism, do you agree? Now, to me I'd certainly define somebody who would like to strap on a bomb and go blow up a bunch of people as extremist, there's no doubt about it. It's certainly outside of my moral standards and such things would certainly be outside our society's accepted behaviors and ideologies.

But what are Islam's ideologies and moral standards, and how do they fall in line with your assertions that killing the infidel is an extremist interpretation of Islam?

I'd like to compare numbers, but it's difficult to figure out how many Muslims there are in the US. You see, Muslims say other groups deflate their numbers in order to make them appear less important, and  non-muslim groups claim that Muslims inflate their numbers so they appear to have more political power than they actually do.

Estimates range from about a million (which sounds way too low) and seven million. But those numbers are from 2001, so I say fuck it! Let's say there are fourteen million moderate, non blowing-shit-up, Muslims in the USA.

How do they stack up against the number of Muslims in the Middle East, where there are plenty of blowing-shit-up Muslims?
And just because I like you, I'll only include the countries where they really like blowing shit up. Let's take a look...

Iran - 63,000,000
Iraq - 23,000,000
Palestine - 3,770,000
Saudi Arabia - 22,400,000
Syria - 17,800,000
Afghanistan - 28,000,000
Pakistan - 180,000,000

Total Blowing-Shit-Up Muslim Population: 337,970,000
Total Very Generous Estimate of NBSUMP: 14,000,000

The only possible conclusion is that by the very definition of extremism itself, the non-blowing-shit-up Muslims are actually the extremists.

Look out! Here comes Doormouse's allegation that I hate niggers!

I think your population counts are off.  I figured you were going to go with some kind of percentage of total population from each region.

However, I find the assumption invalid that all of the Muslims living internationally want to blow shit up, and all of the Muslims living in the USA don't want to blow shit up.

Recognize that I'm only disagreeing with the numerical side of your argument.

I think your population counts are off.  I figured you were going to go with some kind of percentage of total population from each region.

Each of those countries is in excess of 90% Muslim and I generously doubled the highest US Muslim population estimate. What is splitting hairs possibly going to accomplish?

However, I find the assumption invalid that all of the Muslims living internationally want to blow shit up, and all of the Muslims living in the USA don't want to blow shit up.

It's not about exact numbers, it's about the question of what exactly is the "moral center" of Islam. What are it's accepted norms?

I mean, how many Muslims do you really think you're going to find in those countries that don't support Jihad?

Here's another way to illustrate my point: I'm sure that you could find some little po-dunk town in the bible belt that hates pornography, I mean really hates porno. They crusade against it, burn it, shit... Let's pretend they even blew up a porno warehouse.

Would that town be representative of the USA's collective attitude toward pornography?

What is the infidel? Does it mean non-believer or something else?

You're kidding, right?
 
Yes, it's the non-believer.

No I wasn't kidding, I thought maybe it meant someone who lives in a way that is morally bad.

Sorry, I struggle to get into this argument. Most religious people I've met are nicer than non-religious folk

My experiences with US Muslims (I lived in a 90% Muslim neighborhood in Detroit for 3 years) were generally pretty agreeable.  One of my friends from work took me to his mosque one time for a tour (the largest mosque in N. America) and it was pretty nice but weird, and I'm not religious so I didn't partake in anything or any of that.  Still, US Muslims I think are over-compensating in their kindness to make up for the perceived opinion of them from US interactions abroad.  In other words, all the US Muslims I've met, seem to try to be as nice and fit in as possible because 1) they are living the good life in America instead of some shit hole desert and 2) they don't want to be cast in with the lot that does the car bombings.

I taught a lot of majority Muslim kids at schools I worked at, and found them no differently behaved than similar white or black or latino kids.

There are also lots of Muslims serving in the military, and they are under similar circumstances except they have to be even on better behavior, and they tend to get cast in with dudes like Major Hasan.  I bet if Timothy McVeigh was a latino there would have practically been mexican internment camps in the Southwest, but instead he was a white christian fundamentalist.  Why don't we perceive white christian people to be more likely to blow things up?

For those that use the term infidel, it usually does mean someone who lives in a way that is morally bad. The basic assumption is that non-believers are, by their non-belief alone, morally bad livers.

Anyway, I'm not really sure I want to get into a huge discussion. I really don't think either side of the issue is at all likely to change the mind of the other side.

I think it does bear examining what's really going on here, though:
Here we are, a bunch of predominantly white Americans who consider trips to "a few states over" to be a big deal and we're discussing a religion that makes up considerably less that 5% of our national scene. (Calculation: Estimates of 15-16% atheism/agnosticism times 308 million total Americans = 46.2 million nonreligious Americans. 308 million total Americans minus 46.2 million nonreligious Americans = 261.8 religious Americans. An overestimated 14 million Muslim Americans divided by 261.8 religious Americans = 5.3% Muslim Americans.). Let's be generous and say that each of us knows 500 people personally. Considering that none of us are Muslim that means that statistically we're basing our personal understanding of Islam on 26 people or 7 millionth of 1% of the religion. (Calculation: 337,970,000 BSUMP + 14,000,000 NBSUMP = 351,970,000 Sand niggras. 26 muslims we gregarious folks know divided by 351,970,000 turban monkeys = 7 millionth of 1%). So how are we all speaking so knowledgeably about what Islam means to Muslims in general? How do we know what the "moral center of Islam" is?

We get our ideas from TV or we seek out the views we already have in print media or online. This whole thing is a giant waste of time.

To reitterate the point that I tried to make last time:
1-Islam is demonstrated to work perfectly fine for an overestimated 14 million Muslims in the USA.
2-There must be something different between Islam in the USA and the Middle East.
3-Let's call it extremism.
4-Fuck extremism.
5-Fuck the bigots who overgeneralize extremism to cover entire religions.
6-Fuck all religion equally.

There's no way for me to make myself clearer. The irrationally obstinate view that all Muslims wish harm to all non-Muslims is bigotry. Good day, sir.

that's it, i'm getting nachos for lunch.

Nachos > internet arguments

Once again the Americans on the forum forget about Indo when posting about Muslims.

My experiences with US Muslims (I lived in a 90% Muslim neighborhood in Detroit for 3 years) were generally pretty agreeable.

 It's called "dissimilitude". That Islam has about half a dozen terms covering every nuance of thereof speaks volumes. Taqiyya, Kitman, el-Toque, ad nauseum. Muhammad practiced it himself, and taught his followers it was their duty to do likewise, they have spent the past thirteen centuries perfecting it.

 Not that there aren't any practicing (and utterly clueless) Muslims who are genuinely good people, just that you'd be a rube to not distrust anything they tell you about Islam or their personal beliefs. It's like being black and trusting a KKK member when he says, "It's not about hatred, it's about White Pride"... only more so.

For those that use the term infidel, it usually does mean someone who lives in a way that is morally bad. The basic assumption is that non-believers are, by their non-belief alone, morally bad livers.

 That is the understatement of the decade. The proper translation would be "unbeliever". The Arabic word, "kafir" is just about the vilest thing you can call a human being, and is laden with connotations of justifiable violence.

The Koran and its accessories defines the kafir and says that the kafir is:

Hated- 40:35 They who dispute the signs of Allah [kafirs] without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers. So Allah seals up every arrogant, disdainful heart. and despised by Allah.

Mocked- 83:34 On that day the faithful will mock the kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the kafirs be paid back for what they did?

Punished- 25:77 Say to the kafirs: My Lord does not care for you or your prayers. You have rejected the truth, so sooner or later, a punishment will come.

Beheaded- 47:4 When you encounter the kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thor-oughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.

Confused- 6:25 Some among them listen to you [Mohammed], but We have cast veils over their [kafirs] hearts and a heaviness to their ears so that they cannot understand our signs [the Koran].

Plotted against- 86:15 They plot and scheme against you [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against them. Therefore, deal calmly with the kafirs and leave them alone for a while.

Terrorized- 8:12 Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, "I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the kafirs' hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fin-gers!"

Annihilated- 6:45 So the kafirs were annihilated. All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

Killed- 4:91 If they do not keep away from you or offer you peace or withdraw their hostilities, then seize them and kill them wherever they are. We give you complete authority over them.

Crucified- 5:33 The only reward for those who war against Allah and His messengers and strive to com-mit mischief on the earth is that they will be slain or crucified, have their alternate hands and feet cut off, or be banished from the land. This will be their disgrace in this world, and a great torment shall be theirs in the next except those who repent before you overpower them. Know that Allah is forgiving and merciful.

Made war on- 9:29 Make war on those who have received the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] but do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day. They do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden. The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they submit and pay the poll tax [jizya], and they are humiliated.

A Muslim is not the friend of a kafir- 3:28 Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah's protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.

A kafir is ignorant- 6:111 Even if We had sent down the angels to them [kafirs], the dead had spoken to them, and We had gathered all things before their eyes, they would not believe unless Allah had willed it, but most of them are ignorant.

Evil- 23:97 And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones [kafirs]. And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.

Disgraced- 37:18 Tell them, "Yes! And you [kafirs] will be disgraced."

A partner of Satan- 25:55 And still they worship others besides Allah who can neither help nor hurt them. The kafir is Satan's ally against Allah. Unclean- 9:28 Oh, believers, only the kafirs are unclean.

Cursed- 33:60 They [kafirs] will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and mur-dered. It was Allah's same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah's ways.

Stolen from- Bukhari 5,59,537 On the day of Khaybar, Allah's Apostle divided the spoils of war of Khaybar with the ratio of two shares for the horse and one share for the foot soldier.

Raped- Ishaq 759 [Mohammed's official biography]: On the occasion of Khaybar, Mohammed put forth new orders about forcing sex with captive women. If the woman was pregnant she was not to be used for sex until after the birth of the child. Nor were any women to be used for sex who were unclean with regard to Muslim laws about menstruation.

 I'll take being called a "nigger" over that any day.

Once again the Americans on the forum forget about Indo when posting about Muslims.

 I'm sure those girls did something to deserve it, though. Like learning to read, or saying "no", or, I don't know, existing.

This one was obviously just a promiscuous whore who was asking for it:

I bet if Timothy McVeigh was a latino there would have practically been mexican internment camps in the Southwest, but instead he was a white christian fundamentalist.  Why don't we perceive white christian people to be more likely to blow things up?

Nobody cares that Timothy McVeigh was a white christian because what he did wasn't done in the name of religion you goofball.

I think the numbers for muslims in Iraq are inflated, the entire population of Iraq at the start of the invasion was only 25,000,000

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. --Moses in retribution against unbelievers among his own people.

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."